Traveler tackle upgrade

[Loren Beach]

We need to reduce the effort needed to bring the traveler up.
Stock ratio is 3 to 1. There is a Harken big bullet block and becket on each side of the main sheet car. This leads out to an upright double mounted on the bottom of the combing, with the line tail going up thru a cam cleat on each side.
I will append some photos of the stock Harken blocks.

I am considering replacing the ones attached to the car with doubles or a small fiddle and then dead-ending the line on a new eye beside the present upright double.

Has any one done a change like this on their Olson or Ericson with an aft-mount or bridgedeck traveler?

Loren

 

[Slick470]

Hi Loren, I haven't thought about this upgrade on our O911, but I do find it interesting that the O34 and O911 have the same purchase for the traveller. I guess I would have assumed that the O34 would have more.

Our setup is a bit different though. Instead of a bullet block with a becket, our traveller car has a single block mounted to each side that has a stainless loop on top to dead end to. Does the same thing though.

The only down sides that I can think of to adding more purchase to the system is that you'll need longer traveller lines and you'll lose a bit of speed in the system. Both may be worth it to make the process easier though.

 

[windjunkee]

Hi Loren,

We replaced the mainsheet traveler on VOR with the same setup you describe. We had a custom set up done by Garhauer. My only issue is the outfeed of the traveler lines. Our set up has the lines going forward into the main cockpit, which is great when I've got a full crew. For shorthanded sailing, traveling the main is a job the helmsman can handle the best, but as it stands now, that job becomes awkward. Also the lines are interfered with by the cockpit cushions. For moving the sail under load though, the set up works like a charm.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32 2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

 

[E33MikeOx]

Loren:

Wander up to walk #2 at RCYC, slip #15, and take a look at my traveler setup. It's a considerable change and improvement over the original factory setup, and features an added part for more power. I got so clever that I have two (2) cleating options for each side - the original vertical cam cleat, and a horizontal cam cleat on a home fabricated bracket. The new horizontal cleat gets used 99+% of the time. I think I had to have one custom part made (for each side) to dead end the traveler control line at the car. Works for me. How many times have you sailed with me?

Mike O.
E33 JP Foolish

 

[Andrew Means]

Windjunkee, I'm curious to see your setup - I'm looking to replace the old Kenyon traveler on our Ericson 27 and have been looking at Garhauer travelers as an option, especially their MT-1

and MT-3, the main difference between the two being that one is a double block and the other is a single. Here's the MT-3:

My question (to everybody with an E27, I suppose) is would I be asking for trouble if I went with the MT-3? We're not doing bluewater sailing, and even in high winds my main complaint with my current traveler setup is how rough its operation is and how the cam cleats are positioned. Also I appreciate being able to handle the traveler as the helmsman and having to pull twice as much rope through the cars (and store twice as much in the cockpit) might be annoying.

Thoughts?

 

[E33MikeOx]

Here's a bit of traveler up-grade advice that I learned the hard way: Don't assume that the new traveler's track has the same bolt hole spacing as you current (old) traveler track. Remember Murphy's Law....

After special ordering my new traveler system from Harken - and after pulling off the old traveler track - I discovered that the bolt holes in my bridge deck didn't match the holes in my brand new track. OK, I could have drilled new holes, and glassed over the old holes, but I just don't have that expertise with fiberglass. The solution was to order another brand new track from Harken that is made without bold holes and is intended for retrofits like mine. The track captures the heads of hex bolts using a formed channel on the bottom. A bit tricky to install, but it makes for a very neat installation. The absence of bolt heads doesn't really show in the attached pics, but maybe you can get the idea. Also check out my nifty home made "L" brackets with the second cam cleat for the traveler control lines.

Mike Oxborrow
E-33 JP Foolish Hull #25

 

[bigd14]

Andrew, I would not want any less purchase than I have with this setup (Garhauer MT-2CT). Its a little extra line, but its easily adjusted one handed while keeping one hand on the tiller. When the wind kicks up its nice to actually be able to haul the boom in a bit without resorting to a major effort. The only change I might make is to mount a set of spinlock cleats on the edge of the cabin top so I do not have to reach so far to grab the traveller lines. Its a long reach to the leeward line to take up slack when getting ready to tack

Edited- Suddenly occured to me that you may have the split cockpit configuration- if so this may not apply to you as much since you can get more leverage pulling up than you can pulling back...

Also, check your existing traveler for backing plates. Mine had none and the small washers had pulled most of the way into the core. :0

Just waiting for a big gust to pull out entirely!

 

[Emerald]

Those holes look too clean for a washer pulling through fiberglass under load. The glass looks cleanly cut with no bending and distortion on the edges etc - almost like someone took a mortise bit to clean it (core) out and purposefully recess the washer - not good - any signs of a PO having been in here before "fixing" a leak and wet holes? I see what looks like epoxy oozing through one of them as if to seal it.

 

[bigd14]

any signs of a PO having been in here before "fixing" a leak and wet holes? I see what looks like epoxy oozing through one of them as if to seal it.

I wish the PO had done ANYTHING to try to fix a leak!

You're right, it does look intentional. I doubt the PO would have done anything that advanced. At any rate, its a poor installation either way. That was my epoxy when I sealed the boat up after stripping all hardware off in preparation for recoring and paint.

 

[Emerald]

You look like the article from West System/EpoxyWorks on recoring a deck:

http://www.epoxyworks.com/19/Replacing_Core.html

 

[Loren Beach]

Increasing the Effort

With reference to the great photo in reply #7, I recall that the effort to sheet in the main changes "geometrically" as you move forward from the rear of the boom. At the mid point the load is a lot higher than many folks might at first believe.
Anyone here have the multiplier? I supposed that it's in the Harken technical stuff somewhere...

So, the load on the sheet and the load on the traveler tackle is a lot greater for mid-boom schemes, but I am not sure just how to quickly calculate it.

Loren

 

[AleksT]

Force on a Lever (the boom) is linear with respect to length. If you moved your sheet from mid boom to the end of the boom (twice the distance) you would need half the force.
this is of course assuming same point of sail same wind speed, etc.

 

[Andrew Means]

You're right, bigd14, I've got the end-boom sheeting, which as AlexT says, will hopefully require a lot less force.

And as for holes, I've heard people say that Garhauer will custom-drill holes for you in their track, which is pretty rad. Good call on checking on the backing plate as well. Time to start doing Yoga so I can cram myself underneath the cockpit : )

 

[Mark F]

Hi Andrew,

I installed the MT-3 on my E27 (wheel) and I'm happy with it. I chose to run a continuous traveler line. It takes a bit more finesse but I like the lack of (traveler) line in the cockpit. Garharer had a 48" unit in stock when I got mine. If I were to do it again I would order a full length combing to combing track (closer to 5'). With the end of boom sheeting you have way less range compared to midboom.

 

[Ron342]

Mid boom on E29???

Anyone tried mid boom sheeting on an E29 with the separated cockpit??

 

[Andrew Means]

Hi Andrew,

I installed the MT-3 on my E27 (wheel) and I'm happy with it. I chose to run a continuous traveler line. It takes a bit more finesse but I like the lack of (traveler) line in the cockpit. Garharer had a 48" unit in stock when I got mine. If I were to do it again I would order a full length combing to combing track (closer to 5'). With the end of boom sheeting you have way less range compared to midboom.
View attachment 9820

Huh, so yours is 48" of track? I measured my current traveler, which definitely extends beyond where yours is and it was 45 1/4"; I probably have about 1" of space between the traveler ends and the combing. Anyway, thank for the pic! I suppose a continuous traveler line does keep the rope out of the cockpit, even with the higher purchase of the MT-3. I'm actually on the phone with Garhauer right now, we'll see what they say.

 

[Andrew Means]

Oh, and also, nice helmsman's seat on the lazarette - I've been thinking about adding one on the cockpit coaming amidships with the wheel; I find I sit there more often than not so I can see the headsail telltales; it's a nice place to sit, except for the narrowness of the coaming (like 2.75"). A 6" seat right there might make all the difference.

 

[Mark F]

Hi Andrew,

I thought I remembered the traveler being 48". I must be wrong . If you have an inch either side of your existing traveler that should be a good measurement.

Yea, I like the helm seat a lot. It's nice being able to sit comfortably with the boat heeled in 20+ knot winds.

 

[Andrew Means]

You know what, you're right - mine was 54 3/4" - apparently I'm dyslexic.

Just ordered a MT-3 from Guido at Garhauer; I'll let you guys know when it's arrived (and hopefully painlessly installed)!

 

[Greg Ross]

You really should consult with the I 31 Junkies

Loren,
Have you considered Harken Windward Sheeting, it's so simple it's elegant. No cam cleats, rather the car does all the work. You can have 3 : 1 or 4 : 1 whatever suits you. While the Admiral is below fixing you a mug of tea there's no messing with releaseing this and tugging on that!