Tiller or wheel
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
Alan Gomes
Sustaining Partner
Hi, Richard.
Which version of the E25 do you have? I presume the earlier model and not the 25+.
At any rate, I suppose it's more a matter of preference than anything. Personally, I would never want a wheel on a 25 foot boat. I'm not sure I'd say that it will make the boat "perform" better, exactly. However, many who prefer a tiller like the feel of it better, and I suppose that might result in your sailing the boat better. Perhaps.
It depends
I couldn't imagine a wheel on my 25+ for a couple reasons;
1.) the 25+ is an ideal boat to single hand because the tiller puts you right between the primaries, directly behind the cabin top lines (if you've led some lines aft), and under some protection if you have a dodger.
2.) The boat sails better without weight on the stern.
3.) The cockpit is pinched and doesn't have alot of room the further back you go and the back stay starts to get in the way.
4.) Tiller pilots are cheap and easy compared to auto pilots for wheels.
The only downside is the tiller does sweep the majority of the cockpit, so you might not get as much room as you hope while under sail. However, when your at the dock, you just swing it up and out if the way.
I couldn't imagine a wheel on my 25+ for a couple reasons;
1.) the 25+ is an ideal boat to single hand because the tiller puts you right between the primaries, directly behind the cabin top lines (if you've led some lines aft), and under some protection if you have a dodger.
2.) The boat sails better without weight on the stern.
3.) The cockpit is pinched and doesn't have alot of room the further back you go and the back stay starts to get in the way.
4.) Tiller pilots are cheap and easy compared to auto pilots for wheels.
The only downside is the tiller does sweep the majority of the cockpit, so you might not get as much room as you hope while under sail. However, when your at the dock, you just swing it up and out if the way.
If the wheel is junk, toss it. If it works fine, consider that the installation is worth several thousand bucks.
The boat won't sail or perform better with a tiller. There will be more feel, though, and tiller pilots are great.
More room in the cockpit with a tiller? Hmmm. On my 25-footer the tiller was in the way at all times and seemed to take up the whole space.
The boat won't sail or perform better with a tiller. There will be more feel, though, and tiller pilots are great.
More room in the cockpit with a tiller? Hmmm. On my 25-footer the tiller was in the way at all times and seemed to take up the whole space.
Ian S
Member III
I Love wheel helms, however, that being said, My opinion is that a tiller will actually improve performance, if only slightly. This would be due not only to less weight in the stern and thereby better boat trim (waterline trim)
but also say to you that a tiller will send much better feedback to the helmsman and will generaly improve steering.
There is a good reason that many, even quite large performance boats have tillers. It is a light weight, simple and damn near bullet proof system that also offers lightning fast response with unequaled steering feedback. Notice that the wheels on big performance boats all use carbon wheels and other technologies in the system? There is fair amount of weight involved in these systems. I offer my proof in that I used to race against an almost identical E27 with a tiller where as mine had the wheel. The tiller boat tended to perform better on all points of sail all things being equal.
It is my personal belief that the better helmsman started and mastered tiller steered boats prior to sailing wheel helms. If anyone has never sailed on anything but a wheel boat I think thier at a disadvantage. I may get some grief for this statement but I really believe it to be fact!
Finally "should it stay or should it go?" Well I guess that will ultimately prove a matter of preference and as Christian stated thats a good chunk of bucks to use to decorate the garage floor or boatyard parking lot! As a final thought if the wheel is a yacht specialties (as Im sure it is) its days are numbered anyhow, so something to consider.
Best of luck!
Capt. Ian
but also say to you that a tiller will send much better feedback to the helmsman and will generaly improve steering.
There is a good reason that many, even quite large performance boats have tillers. It is a light weight, simple and damn near bullet proof system that also offers lightning fast response with unequaled steering feedback. Notice that the wheels on big performance boats all use carbon wheels and other technologies in the system? There is fair amount of weight involved in these systems. I offer my proof in that I used to race against an almost identical E27 with a tiller where as mine had the wheel. The tiller boat tended to perform better on all points of sail all things being equal.
It is my personal belief that the better helmsman started and mastered tiller steered boats prior to sailing wheel helms. If anyone has never sailed on anything but a wheel boat I think thier at a disadvantage. I may get some grief for this statement but I really believe it to be fact!
Finally "should it stay or should it go?" Well I guess that will ultimately prove a matter of preference and as Christian stated thats a good chunk of bucks to use to decorate the garage floor or boatyard parking lot! As a final thought if the wheel is a yacht specialties (as Im sure it is) its days are numbered anyhow, so something to consider.
Best of luck!
Capt. Ian
It's a tiller, not a tiller handle. You do have experience with both tillers and wheels before making this decision?
For what its worth, I have a receipt from the previous owner for an H&L Marine Inc. Ericson 27 Tiller (Part # 1157F). It fits well, but there are a few strange things. The tiller comes within a few inches of the companionway (from memory) and I had to use a bracket to get my tiller pilot to work. Like Christian said, it does take up a lot of the cockpit, but on really cold days, I can sit in the companionway and hold the tiller just behind my back (with the heater on of course). Probably not the most hard core mariner move, but it keeps my feet warm (plus my kids get a kick out of tickling my legs when I least expect it). The receipt is from pyacht.com, but I could only find it here: https://www.bargainboatparts.com/p-104181-wood-tillers.aspx.
All that being said, if my boat came with a wheel, I'd probably keep it and just put a tiller on the list for my next boat. I love my boat, but that list is getting long.
All that being said, if my boat came with a wheel, I'd probably keep it and just put a tiller on the list for my next boat. I love my boat, but that list is getting long.
Alan Gomes
Sustaining Partner
You might check with these folks: https://ruddercraft.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=164_88&product_id=261
alcodiesel
Bill McLean
The pic shows no hardware for the rudder post.
Thanks
The boat was equipped with a tiller when it was new. Maybe the person that engineered the boat know how to make it work. I had no Ideal where to find one that would fit, and know I do.
Thanks Richard
Beware of sailboat curmudgeons they are to quick to criticize, and tend to turn people off from even thinking about taking up sailing.
The boat was equipped with a tiller when it was new. Maybe the person that engineered the boat know how to make it work. I had no Ideal where to find one that would fit, and know I do.
Thanks Richard
Beware of sailboat curmudgeons they are to quick to criticize, and tend to turn people off from even thinking about taking up sailing.
Richard,
I didn't mean to insult you, although I can see how it read that way. It's your boat, the choice is personal. Sift the opinions for your own use, and you won;t go wrong.
I didn't mean to insult you, although I can see how it read that way. It's your boat, the choice is personal. Sift the opinions for your own use, and you won;t go wrong.
alcodiesel
Bill McLean
Richard the wheel makes my boat perform better.
I have a bad back. The last boat I had had a tiller and I felt trapped in very few positions when sailing. The back would start grumbling.
The wheel allows me to move around: Sit, stand, lean, even half lay down! I am way more comfortable hence I sail the boat better.
When young, though I loved tillers- get to feel her power, yada, yada.
Just another perspective.
I have a bad back. The last boat I had had a tiller and I felt trapped in very few positions when sailing. The back would start grumbling.
The wheel allows me to move around: Sit, stand, lean, even half lay down! I am way more comfortable hence I sail the boat better.
When young, though I loved tillers- get to feel her power, yada, yada.
Just another perspective.
Kevin A Wright
Member III
After sailing a tiller for years, when I bought my E27 many years ago it came with a wheel and I had to convert. Aside from the problem of retraining my brain which took about 6 months (wheels and tillers steer opposite, when your hand is on top of the wheel and you move your hand to port the boat goes to port not stbd). The only real downside was the loss of 'feel' through the wheel. Especially with the balanced rudder on an E27 (I finally tied a knot on the wheel that showed when the rudder was centered).
However I wouldn't go back to a tiller on that sized boat if you have a good wheel in place. The tiller will only give you more room in the cockpit when you are at the dock. The rest of the time the tiller occupies pretty much the whole center of the cockpit. And when it comes time to add an autopilot, a small wheel pilot is a whole lot easier, more robust, and takes up far less room than a tillerpilot.
My advice would be, if it ain't broke don't fix it. There are always plenty of projects to do on a boat especially of this vintage. If all those are miraculously done and you have bucks burning a hole in your pocket, spend it investing in other things if you don't have on board (dodger, autopilot, rollerfurling??).
Good luck
Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy
Port Townsend
However I wouldn't go back to a tiller on that sized boat if you have a good wheel in place. The tiller will only give you more room in the cockpit when you are at the dock. The rest of the time the tiller occupies pretty much the whole center of the cockpit. And when it comes time to add an autopilot, a small wheel pilot is a whole lot easier, more robust, and takes up far less room than a tillerpilot.
My advice would be, if it ain't broke don't fix it. There are always plenty of projects to do on a boat especially of this vintage. If all those are miraculously done and you have bucks burning a hole in your pocket, spend it investing in other things if you don't have on board (dodger, autopilot, rollerfurling??).
Good luck
Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy
Port Townsend
Pat O'Connell
Member III
E25 Wheel
Hi Richard We had a tiller on our E25 and all was good. The E28+ that we bought new in 81 we put a wheel on and I like it a lot better. More body positions is more comfort. The only disadvantage was that we could not get under the cockpit cover when it rained. We installed a autohelm with a bulkhead control and that solved that problem. I think the length of the cockpit was about the same 6ft? We had a camel made for the stern of the 28+ and that might make your wheel more useful too. Gotta go shovel 15 inches of snow.
Best Regards Pat O'Connell
1981 E28+Chips Universal 5411
Hi Richard We had a tiller on our E25 and all was good. The E28+ that we bought new in 81 we put a wheel on and I like it a lot better. More body positions is more comfort. The only disadvantage was that we could not get under the cockpit cover when it rained. We installed a autohelm with a bulkhead control and that solved that problem. I think the length of the cockpit was about the same 6ft? We had a camel made for the stern of the 28+ and that might make your wheel more useful too. Gotta go shovel 15 inches of snow.
Best Regards Pat O'Connell
1981 E28+Chips Universal 5411
steven
Sustaining Member
Depends somewhat on where the where your wheel is located and where you like to sit.
Assuming the wheel is aft, your weight when driving will be further back in the cockpit.
That will dis-improve your fore-aft trim - especially on a short waterline of the 25 -adding to weather helm, reducing speed and the like.
The tiller puts your body weight amidships so boat trims better.
My usual helming position is to sit to the front (and side) of the wheel- which reduces the problem somewhat.
On the other hand, if you sail often with guests, weight ends up in the back anyway. Other things, like being able to see everything going on and lower commotion in the cockpit may be more important.
Assuming the wheel is aft, your weight when driving will be further back in the cockpit.
That will dis-improve your fore-aft trim - especially on a short waterline of the 25 -adding to weather helm, reducing speed and the like.
The tiller puts your body weight amidships so boat trims better.
My usual helming position is to sit to the front (and side) of the wheel- which reduces the problem somewhat.
On the other hand, if you sail often with guests, weight ends up in the back anyway. Other things, like being able to see everything going on and lower commotion in the cockpit may be more important.
sallyjane823
Junior Member
H & L Marine question
Just wondering if that is H&L Marine in Compton, CA? I am considering purchasing a '76 Ericson 27 and wanted to know if there is a source for parts on a boat of that age. I would call this H&L Marine.
Just wondering if that is H&L Marine in Compton, CA? I am considering purchasing a '76 Ericson 27 and wanted to know if there is a source for parts on a boat of that age. I would call this H&L Marine.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?11043-H-amp-L-Marine-Woodwork&referrerid=28
Looks like that company is out of business.
