Taking a 38-200 offshore

[Seth]

The runner thing

I hear you. Generally speaking the rig is amply supported. The fore and aft lowers DO cover the issue below the lower spreader, but not above.

The thing is that in a heavy seaway, the mast will move more in all directions, which can fatigue some parts if not stabilized. With a full main and headsail, you probably do not need them unless it is extreme, but when you are reefed, and have a short hoist headail, the load/support on the mast changes, and it is here where you have more tangible support from runners (located midway betwen the upper and lower spreaders). In a worst case scenario(mast failure) and you are making a jury rig, this gear for the runners could be perfect for improvised rigged shrouds, etc.

The other benefit, of course, is considerably more control over sail shape. Let's say you are headsail reaching in light to medium conditions with large ocean swells. The seas will be forcing the mast to move a lot, and the headstay especially will be jumping around more than you would like. The solution is to add some backstay of course. But, it could be that in doing so, you overflatten the mainsail (from mast bend) for the moderate conditions. This translates to reduced performance ( could be a knot of speed in these conditions), and that "underpowered" feeling (ever drive a FORD Pinto?) If you crank on a bit of runner, you can "unbend" the mast, power up the main without losing headstay tension..

IIRC, the tangs in the mast are provided. For me, I would view them as cheap insurance, responsible seamanship, and added performance. Will it make all the difference? Not likely, but there are some situations where it might. This one is kind of a personal choice-I don't think are needed for a cruiser doing coastal cruising, but if you plan on heavy trade wind sailing or ocean passages, I'll take 'em!!

Make any sense?

Cheers!

 

[Cory B]

Makes Sense

Makes sense. Thanks for your thoughts. And you are correct (at least in my case) that the mast does includes slots for runners.

Cory Bolton

 

[rbonilla]

wow...well put Guy.....

Ok I have to weigh in here.....

In the 40k+ miles we did offshore, there was one common thing about all of the boats out there...........

They were out there doing it.

First what does offshore mean to you. Sailing in the roaring 40's? The milk run through the islands of the pacific? Going to Catalina island from San Diego? All of that is "Offshore"

Smallest yacht we regularly got together with: 17 foot decked over German canoe, Peter Pan.

Sailed in Company with a HR 53 for a big chunck of the pacific....

Catalina 30, yep, Hunter 36 Yep, Vancouver 27 (Some of our best cruising friends, very happy with it.) Cold Molded British 38 footer fraglie as an egg was how the owner put the thickness and structural suitability of the boat.

Know your boat, know your limits, then get out there and do it.

KNow your boat means taking it apart to me, having touched all the parts, knowing the rudder shaft, knowing every inch of the rig, knowing every foot of fuel hose, where it goes and why. Now if you know your boat, you are going to find quite a few things that you can do differently, better, or that need to be fixed. Fix those that need to be fixed, add only the equiptment that makes the trip better FOR YOU. Don't add a bunch of shit just cause a bunch of people say you should have it. Remember the old zen kone? Everything you own owns you? It realy should be everything you own you have to maintain.

GO, Take reasonable precautions and learn how to fix shit..... Really fix it, not just write a check to someone else to fix it...... Then go see the world, get out of your country and go to someone elses, it is extreamely freeing to the mind and the spirit.

A lot of people want to sell you stuff because you are going to need it offshore, most of it is complete shit, that you are never going to use...... Or if you try to use is going to break.....

Stuff to take with you:
1> Some clothing, for when there are other people around.
2> Some good books, maybe 2, maybe 25, but you are going to need them. Really good books, soul food books....
3> Your soul
4> Your eyes
5> Your ears
6> Your heart
7> A good hat
8> A good pair of shoes, cause you are going to want to walk around the strange places you visit.

Everything else you can borrow or share...... (Note that the boat isn't even in the top 10 list above, lots of people have boats, too big a boats, can't sail them by themselves, so you can help them if you want....)

The thing that determins whether you are ready or not ready to go offshore is YOU, not the boat.

An e-38 for offshore, freaking palace, more than big enough for a 6 person crew. Go have fun..... Hell some of my best friends did it with 5 people on a home built Cascade 29, 6 years in the south pacific....... And you want to know if you can do it in an e-38......PLEASE

Really the boat that you have is the best boat to go in..... And I haven't even surveyed it for you....

Why second guess your dreams, make them happen, to those that tell you it is impossible...

"Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Alice in Wonderland.

If this post doesn't seem to make sense try this: http://www.svpneuma.com/living_dream.html#9
If you still want to "get it" and can't seem to understand my strange reasoning start an e-mail thread with me, you will find it on the contact pages of my site.....

Guy

 

[fidji]

runners

To Seth
I have those slots on my E-35 mk-3 mast, but where i'll put the other end of the runner on the hull and how? Can you made me a sketch?
Thank you
Eric
Decision E 35 mk-3

 

[Seth]

Simple solution

The most common solution is to attach the runners to a sliding padeye at the aft end of the outboard track (one on each side of the boat). Most folks use a simple 4:1 purchase on the end of the runner tails, and this is enough the steady the mast when it is pumping in a seaway. Alternatively, you can run the tail through a block (attached to the same sliding padeye at the aft end of the outboard track), and then directly to one of the wndward unused winches-such as a secondary or cabin top winch if you have one. I would probabaly just use the 4:1 purchase.

If you really wanted to get fancy, you could attach 2 tangs on the transom/deck joint-each one equidistant between the centerline and the transom corner. Attach a block to these tangs and lead the runner tail through the block and to a free winch.


The advantage here is that the runner is now more line-line with the mast, whereas when you use the outboard track you are pulling the mast slightly to windward as well as back. If you are using the runners to truly optimize mast bend and mainsail shape this is a bit better, but probably overkill for you.

But, if the purpose is to reduce pumping of the rig in a seaway and you just use a 4:1 tackle, using the padeye on the outboard track will not be a problem.

Got it?

 

[rcoles]

After-design rudder skegg?

Thanks to you all. I feel better about taking my 38-200 off shore. The TAFG was a major selling point for me as well as everything mentioned in this thread. The blade rudder seems like the biggest concern. Is it possible to reinforce it or retrofit a skeg support?

I do not think it is so wise. Such an area will move the center of giration of the boat aft, and make the helm feel sluggish.
It is also my opinion that if you hit something hard enough, it will break. well, I prefer having to jury-rig and repair a rudder or its post, than a structural element of the grid. I have designed boats with a rudder skeg. Their main objective was the - IOR rule, the streaming of some water flow around the rudder

 

[Seth]

Correct!

A skeg will buy you nothing for this boat. I have had 2 of them fail on a boat while offshore (old Tartan 37), and since the rudder attachment depended on the skeg to keep the leading edge out of the water stream, the gudgeons worked loose and we arrived in Venezuela pumpng 45 minutes out of each hour.

If you have a spade rudder proper designed, and this is, you will only hurt the boat with a modification like this. There are thousands of boats with this same rudder setup sailing all around the world without problems.

Enjoy the good design you have.

Cheers,
S