Standing rigging replacement

[K2MSmith]

The rigger I have been working with in the Bay Area seems to have some availability now after 6 month wait to replace the standing rigging ( navtec rod ) on my boat . The estimate is in the 10K range which includes removing the mast ( but no hail-out ) . I know this isn’t cheap but if you know the 33RH rig , it is a high-end rig .
They want 50% upfront for the project and they plan to invoice me weekly . It seems like this is sort-of a “time and materials” agreement with quite a bit of cash upfront.
Is this a common practice for marine industry agreement? I’m a little worried about committing that much cash upfront but I do understand they have to order the parts , pay the crane etc . I’ve already given them a deposit, get on their schedule to look at the project.
I’ve had to pay a large percentage up front for home construction projects ( like a new wood shingle roof ), but those projects had a formal contract that was pretty watertight.

Any ideas / suggestions ? Have any of you paid a rigger for a large project like this and what was your experience?

 

[Christian Williams]

I suggest you name the rigger, seeking comment about reputation.

 

[Bolo]

Right now I’m typing this while docked at Knapps Narrows in Maryland and all my paper work on my standing rigging refit is at home but my final cost was $17 (I think). Originally it was estimated to be about $11 but….I kept adding things to the job because how many times do you have the mast stepped? In the end everything except for the actual spars were replaced. The wire, fittings, all the sheaves, all the halyards, VHF antenna and mast head unit. That last one stirred me to replace all the electronics at the helm (you can see that story on my YouTube channel). I even had some corrosion on the mast cleaned up too. I’m out for a week on the bay but when I return I can give you exact figures. Oh, and I had my yard do the work which is Port Annapolis Marine on Back Creek. We had a little bit of a go around about some rigging that I thought they did wrong but in the end they made the adjustments and didn’t charge me. I do recall that I had to drop 50% (of the original $11k estimate) to start the work. All I can say is that I’m glad I had the work done because today we sailed closed hauled in 15 to 20 knot winds and a choppy three and sometimes four foot waves with white caps. I swear it felt that one time Vesper leaped out of the water before “slapping” back down….hard. It was good to know that the standing rigging was brand new.

 

[Nick J]

Wow, this seems really high, but I've seen a few other standard rigging replacement quotes around the $10k mark before, so I must be missing something. If the standing rigging material is around $2k where is the other $8K going?

 

[peaman]

A couple years ago, I had major work done on my rig including new standing, paint spars, etc. I needed to pay 50% to start, 25% after substantial work was done, and final 25% after Spring commissioning. So the 50% part is not unusual, but your quoted price might be high.

 

[Loren Beach]

One factor that sometimes gets overlooked is the shear complexity of the rig. Less parts equals less cost and more parts equals.....


If you have a single spreader rig with single lowers, the base cost of wire and fittings is lowest. Next comes the typical single spreader with double lowers like most of the smaller EY boats in the 70's. Then you get the 80's rigs with double spreaders and double lowers (or single lowers and check stays like the Olson's). Thank goodness the fractional Ericson's did not (afaik) have any jumper struts!)

Count your blessings - daily, for several reasons -that you do not have the B&R rigs on the larger Hunters. I have a friend that had to re-rig one about 4 years ago and the total was around 13K. I know a rigger, and he is not fond of them at all due to tuning hassles -- and explaining to owners how their "cheap" boat costs so much for a routine re-rig. Yikes.

 

[K2MSmith]

Right now I’m typing this while docked at Knapps Narrows in Maryland and all my paper work on my standing rigging refit is at home but my final cost was $17 (I think). Originally it was estimated to be about $11 but….I kept adding things to the job because how many times do you have the mast stepped? In the end everything except for the actual spars were replaced. The wire, fittings, all the sheaves, all the halyards, VHF antenna and mast head unit. That last one stirred me to replace all the electronics at the helm (you can see that story on my YouTube channel). I even had some corrosion on the mast cleaned up too. I’m out for a week on the bay but when I return I can give you exact figures. Oh, and I had my yard do the work which is Port Annapolis Marine on Back Creek. We had a little bit of a go around about some rigging that I thought they did wrong but in the end they made the adjustments and didn’t charge me. I do recall that I had to drop 50% (of the original $11k estimate) to start the work. All I can say is that I’m glad I had the work done because today we sailed closed hauled in 15 to 20 knot winds and a choppy three and sometimes four foot waves with white caps. I swear it felt that one time Vesper leaped out of the water before “slapping” back down….hard. It was good to know that the standing rigging was brand new.

Wow, this seems really high, but I've seen a few other standard rigging replacement quotes around the $10k mark before, so I must be missing something. If the standing rigging material is around $2k where is the other $8K going?

Nick J,
The 33RH uses NavTec rod rigging, so the rods and all the fittings are expensive but still available from other sources. There are also fixed costs for pulling the mast (crain Etc. ). I’ve asked for more details on the breakdown.

 

[K2MSmith]

One factor that sometimes gets overlooked is the shear complexity of the rig. Less parts equals less cost and more parts equals.....


If you have a single spreader rig with single lowers, the base cost of wire and fittings is lowest. Next comes the typical single spreader with double lowers like most of the smaller EY boats in the 70's. Then you get the 80's rigs with double spreaders and double lowers (or single lowers and check stays like the Olson's). Thank goodness the fractional Ericson's did not (afaik) have any jumper struts!)

Count your blessings - daily, for several reasons -that you do not have the B&R rigs on the larger Hunters. I have a friend that had to re-rig one about 4 years ago and the total was around 13K. I know a rigger, and he is not fond of them at all due to tuning hassles -- and explaining to owners how their "cheap" boat costs so much for a routine re-rig. Yikes.

Yes, the 33RH is dual spreader. There are shrouds below the lowest spreader attached at mast. I think the shrouds are one piece and ”bend” around the spreader ends from what I can tell. (It is rod).

 

[K2MSmith]

A couple years ago, I had major work done on my rig including new standing, paint spars, etc. I needed to pay 50% to start, 25% after substantial work was done, and final 25% after Spring commissioning. So the 50% part is not unusual, but your quoted price might be high.

Are you comparing the price to a E32 rig ?

 

[Kenneth K]

If the standing rigging material is around $2k where is the other $8K going?

My quote from West Marine Rigging was about $3K for parts only (shrouds & stays, turnbuckles, toggles, and pins) for my 32-3. I think Rigging Only usually comes in a little lower.

 

[Loren Beach]

Thoughts to consider...
Note that if you have old "NavTec" rod rigging and are about to change out the whole rig (new turn buckles, and maybe pins), for almost the same low stretch result you can use Dyform "compacted wire rigging" and achieve about the same result for less $. It's proven product that has been around for several decades. The standard wire ss cable will do fine, too. Matter of fact EY installed wire rigging on my model with Rod as the higher $ alternative for those with lots on $$ to spend on potential additional nano (or micro) knots.

 

[K2MSmith]

Thoughts to consider...
Note that if you have old "NavTec" rod rigging and are about to change out the whole rig (new turn buckles, and maybe pins), for almost the same low stretch result you can use Dyform "compacted wire rigging" and achieve about the same result for less $. It's proven product that has been around for several decades. The standard wire ss cable will do fine, too. Matter of fact EY installed wire rigging on my model with Rod as the higher $ alternative for those with lots on $$ to spend on potential additional nano (or micro) knots.

I thought about converting to wire since the ongoing supply of these parts is questionable but I was told it will be more expensive to do the conversion.

 

[ConchyDug]

10k doesn't sound outlandish for a rod rigging replacement on a 30ish foot boat with double spreaders. A friend just got a quote for reheading the rods on his 55 foot mast with triple spreaders with deck terminated intermediates for 5-7k. All that consists of is pulling the mast and cutting the rods down a little and refinishing the ends then reinstalling the rig(maybe that's an option for you?). For that boat to get all new rod it was in the teens. I had my entire rig replaced/painted and I mean everything except the mast and boom for about 18k. Labor rates in Texas are still sitting around $85-100/hr for riggers. I've seen prices on the East Coast like in Charleston where I could've only got my boom painted for the price I paid for the entire mast. Also 50% upfront is very common in the Galveston Bay area on any job costing more than a boat buck that requires materials.

 

[Bolo]

Wow, this seems really high, but I've seen a few other standard rigging replacement quotes around the $10k mark before, so I must be missing something. If the standing rigging material is around $2k where is the other $8K going?

Yeah, it was high but then there’s this. Last Wednesday we sailed from Annapolis to Knapps Narrows with winds starting out at around 13 knots and ending up being 20 and sustained. The bay swells were 3 to almost 4 feet with a short frequency. In order to punch though the swells I had to let out a full Genoa. The boat didn’t heel as much because of the white capped swells pushing on the keel allowing me to make about 5 knots SOG but we and the rigging took a real pounding. I may send a thank you note to my riggers.

Sorry, I just realized I’m repeating part of my story from my last post but maybe in this case it bears repeating.

 

[Nick J]

Yeah, it was high but then there’s this. Last Wednesday we sailed from Annapolis to Knapps Narrows with winds starting out at around 13 knots and ending up being 20 and sustained. The bay swells were 3 to almost 4 feet with a short frequency. In order to punch though the swells I had to let out a full Genoa. The boat didn’t heel as much because of the white capped swells pushing on the keel allowing me to make about 5 knots SOG but we and the rigging took a real pounding. I may send a thank you note to my riggers.

Sorry, I just realized I’m repeating part of my story from my last post but maybe in this case it bears repeating.

Couldn't agree more. Peace of mind is valuable. I'm just wondering what else was done. We're all going to have to go down this path eventually. Identifying all the little gotchas before hand helps put a plan together (you know that thing we immediately throw away then laugh at after all's said and done)

 

[peaman]

Are you comparing the price to a E32 rig ?

Of course not. The point of my post was to respond to your concern about 50% upfront cost. I cannot compare my rig to yours, largely because mine is wire. But your 10k is about 3 times my quoted cost for standing rigging labor and materials only, not including unstep and step. As stated, that was part of a bigger job including paint, wiring, Tides track, etc, totaling $14k, 50% of which was required to be paid in advance.

 

[Bolo]

Couldn't agree more. Peace of mind is valuable. I'm just wondering what else was done. We're all going to have to go down this path eventually. Identifying all the little gotchas before hand helps put a plan together (you know that thing we immediately throw away then laugh at after all's said and done)

Like I mentioned before, sailing the bay this week but when I get home early next week I’ll pull the invoice.

 

[K2MSmith]

Of course not. The point of my post was to respond to your concern about 50% upfront cost. I cannot compare my rig to yours, largely because mine is wire. But your 10k is about 3 times my quoted cost for standing rigging labor and materials only, not including unstep and step. As stated, that was part of a bigger job including paint, wiring, Tides track, etc, totaling $14k, 50% of which was required to be paid

My tides track installation alone, including all the parts and labor was around 2K as a recall . ( from a different rigger ) . I did that a few years ago with the mast installed. The bay area is expensive for labor rates .

 

[K2MSmith]

Red

Yeah, it was high but then there’s this. Last Wednesday we sailed from Annapolis to Knapps Narrows with winds starting out at around 13 knots and ending up being 20 and sustained. The bay swells were 3 to almost 4 feet with a short frequency. In order to punch though the swells I had to let out a full Genoa. The boat didn’t heel as much because of the white capped swells pushing on the keel allowing me to make about 5 knots SOG but we and the rigging took a real pounding. I may send a thank you note to my riggers.

Sorry, I just realized I’m repeating part of my story from my last post but maybe in this case it bears repeatin

These are normal conditions daily for the SF bay in summer . ( thus my concern

 

[K2MSmith]

I suggest you name the rigger, seeking comment about reputation.

The company is in Sausalito, “South Beach Riggers”