Standing Rigging - Going Synthetic on my e46

willo

Member II
I'm still at the beginning of this adventure. I figured I'd share where I'm at and try to get some thoughts down.

Right now the mast is down and I've measured the rigging as well as worked on plans to make some changes.

One challenge with the 46 is that is used internal rigging termination - that is, the stays actually connect to an internal stainless steel saddle.
To remove the things, I have to disconnect the mast splice and pull the mast apart. The top of the mast is welded and the bottom has an internal shield to send water out of the mast instead of down inside it.

Here's what I mean: (My mast)
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You can see the stay going into the mast. One of the saddles below hangs over that 1" bolt.

These are the saddles that live inside the mast: (Photo from Guy's Aiki, mine are still in the thing)
1644252110031.png

Right now, I've started taking the splice apart - I've broken three different impact bits, but got started with the screws at least.

Next up is how to re-terminate the rigging.
After talking to Colligo several times, we think the easiest option is to use a longer bolt with a sleeve in the 1 inch bolt holes. (The old saddles provided the internal sleeve before)
Colligo makes Cheeky Tangs:
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They are a very clean looking option.
Alternatively I could have some larger version of these made up:
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I'd want something larger that the 5/16" pin this version uses. Which is why I think I'd have to have them fabricated.

The next issue is the Spars.
On the uppers, we have a couple of guide pins.

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These can probably be re-rused, but I'll probably make up something better with a smooth guide surface and tie points for lashings.

The lower spars had a sort of pivot toggle that was attached using a large pin fitting.
This originally terminated the upper and mid stay, with a final say running to the deck.
1644253204409.png
For these, I'm going to make up a sort of modified double pully to allow a continuous run of both the upper and mid stays to extend fully to the deck.
John at Colligo tells me that often they just use a couple of terminators and modify them to fit.
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Grab a pair of these, then cut the end off so they fit into the end of the spar and use the old pin to hold them in place.

Finally we get to the deck terminations.

The e46 has six total 'chainplates' - but really only two actual chainplates.
The forward and mid points are part of the internal rib cage of the boat.
The aft points are actual chainplates that bolt to the bulkheads inside the cabin.
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These are the ribs on Madeye. The middle does have some reinforcements already.
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The chainplates I pulled. They actually don't look horrible up close but I'm going to replace them since they are original.

Continued since I've used all my images for this post!
 

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willo

Member II
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If you ignore the pole and the outboard, you'll see the three deck terminations.

The first question of course, is what size for the new rigging? I'm looking at using dyneema - which is why I started talking to Colligo in the first place.
The first quote (and only one) I've gotten so far uses:
  • 16mm Dux for the Upper to Deck stays
  • 13mm Dux for the rest of the mid and back stays.
  • (No dyneema for the front since it's a Harken roller furling right now.) - More on this later.
One issue I have is that this design uses turnbuckles for now. Those add significantly to the cost (but do make it sort of easier to tune.)
I also discussed the design a bit with Colligo and they agreed that the 16mm may be overkill with 3/4 turnbuckles. They haven't provided me any updates form the discussion yet.

Meanwhile, I'm considering alternatives.
Colligo Dux is a decent product for sure. It's Heat stretched SK75 Dyneema, which reduces the creep factor of the rope.
This is ideal for Colligo designs since they specifically design around minimizing Creep. (This makes sense since the breaking strength of dyneema is so friggin high.)
I've been reading up on different options to understand the situation better.
I good comparison read is: https://www.marlowropes.com/dyneema-technical-information
There are other articles as well.
Without delving into 'Chineema' sources, I'm preferring good manufactures like hampidjan (who makes Dux for Colligo), Marlowe and even Amsteel. I don't really like Amsteel because they don't provide very good documentation on their ropes. The branding gets in the way of the actual data.

The short version here is that I'm seriously considering using SK78 Dyneema.

Turnbuckles vs Deadeyes
This got my attention because of the cost of new turnbuckles. The current quote/plan uses over $3k of turnbuckles - 2x 7/8 Haynes and 5x 5/8 Haynes.
So, Deadeyes and lashings are pretty interesting. They are a bit more work to tension and build, but my e46 is actually really well suited for this sort of task. Between the toe plates along the entire deck and the shear number of winches I have mid deck, It should be pretty easy to set up for tensioning the pairs and the stays.

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I grabbed this from riggingdoctor to cover what this is.
Essentially, you use a winch + blocks to tension the rigging, then lash things in place.

I also like this solution because it's repairable anywhere. Just keep some extra dyneema on hand.

So far this is where I'm at - trying to create my own BOM to compare against my Colligo BOM.
The first quote from Colligo is around 12k. So you can see why I'm a bit motivated.
 
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goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Here are my blog posts on getting Colligo standing rigging:


My intial thoughts on your post:

Your mast seems like an excellend candidate for the cheeky tangs. @Guy Stevens is a fan of those and he will no doubt weigh in.

Colligo rigging is an excellent product but as a rigging replacement solution it will be costly in terms of both money and time. Colligo is small and deals with small suppliers, and Covid and supply chain will likely conspire to make your replacement a drawn-out process.

Given you are fabricating custom parts and creating new rigging dimensions from scratch, you might want to enlist/consult a pro rigger.

I wouldn't say I regret buying Colligo, but in retrospect for the kind of sailing I am doing, I don't think the performance improvement (weight saved aloft) is very meaningful. I expect you have a deep budget for your boat if this an intitial spend area. Keep us up on your progress!
 

willo

Member II
Oh yes, @Guy Stevens and I have discussed it, he pointed me at Colligo (and cheeky tangs) to begin with.
I think they will be used for the mast terminations, they are super clean.

I'm leaning toward unifying everything and using something like 15mm everywhere instead of mixed 13 and 16.
Seems like a good place to start and then I can use the same hardware nearly everywhere.
 

goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Oh yes, @Guy Stevens and I have discussed it, he pointed me at Colligo (and cheeky tangs) to begin with.
I think they will be used for the mast terminations, they are super clean.

I'm leaning toward unifying everything and using something like 15mm everywhere instead of mixed 13 and 16.
Seems like a good place to start and then I can use the same hardware nearly everywhere.
Part of what you are buying from Colligo is expertise. The loads on your mast are different at different points so (at least to me) it would make sense to use different sized lines for different stays.

I found that tightening lashings with a winch to be a challenge. I had to use lashings in order to put my shrouds under tension to set the pins on my turnbuckles.

I guarantee that the pictured lashing is very strong with so many wraps. The tough part is that when the narrow line winds over itself multiple times through the deadeye, you wind up pulling on line friction and have your first couple of wraps that have been extremely tensioned, then under-layers that have not. This evens out after you go sailing, so then you will need to re-tension your lashings. Then they will relax again etc.
 

willo

Member II
John definitely knows his stuff. I'm not actually entirely against paying his price. However, I have asked him for a couple of things to help move that forward and I just haven't seen any of that materialize. I also work in an industry where due diligence is an important factor. I'm still patient, but at the same time I'd really like to get my boat off the hard!

I appreciate the feedback on tensioning. I think I'm in a little better position for the tensioning that you were - again the toe rail on the 46 can be used to connect blocks to, and I have several winches to use. There are three within reach while standing on my center companion way ladder.

Rigging doctor wrote up his process a bit, which is helpful as well. https://www.riggingdoctor.com/life-...your-synthetic-standing-rigging-with-deadeyes

Some additional thoughts:
On most boats you simply measure the old rigging. On my boat we've had to estimate some measurements because of the termination changes. I'm going to install the new lines before the mast goes back up. This means that it'll be harder to use turnbuckles. Also Colligo prefers to make up the cables and pre-tension/set them. This is great but if I need to change it, that's lost work. I did measure from the bolt center, but there's cable slack, etc that I can't accurately compensate for while the mast is down.

Both of those factors make me think that I'll be better off putting in terminations on one end of my stays, putting them on the mast, and then customizing the length of the termination and stretching them after the mast is back up.
 

willo

Member II
Hmm, I found an interesting option for my lower spar ends.
My initial thoughts are to machine a custom piece on my mill, and I'll probably still mess with that just because I can.

For a "cheap" off the shelf solution...
1644334433700.png

These HAAS Thimbles could work...
I'm thinking that I could run a stay through 1 side, leaving the opposite leg open. run the pin through them, then add spacers to prevent rattling+ lashings.
I could potentially cut one in half and weld it to plates for the uppers where I only need one line passing through.
 
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