Rudder blues

[RedHerring]

Ericson 35-2 of 1979 vintage.

On a coastal cruise last week we anchored with stern tied to the shore, anchor dragged during the night and we ended up bumping the aft bottom corner of the rudder blade into the rocks twice before we could get away. There is some visible damage on that corner, about half an inch.

Several days later we were driving her upwind fairly hard, at 20 degrees heel into a 25 knot wind and some 6' chop, and noticed that the tiller fitting in the cockpit is moving sideways about 1/16"-1/8" and every once in a few seconds the rudder post makes a rather loud knocking sound. The knocking disappeared when the wave action subsided. The movement stayed. Actually steering the boat was fine and dandy all along.

When I was looking for the source of those knocks, I did not see any cracks on the rudder post tube, although I could only see it from one side. Saw the rudder gland leaking water (thin continuous streak) into the bilge when underway. Found a thread somewhere on this forum, basically advising to pump the rudder post full of grease through a Zerk fitting to stop that.

What would you do about all this if you were me? The obvious answer is "haul out, drop rudder, fix the rudder blade damage and whatever allows the rudder to move around". Question is, do I have to do it before I do any more sailing?

 

[Christian Williams]

Wheel or tiller, what's the state of the upper rudder post bearing fitting? if that's loose, which is common, the rudder post will bang around.

If you can see the rudder head moving, it may just be the fitting isn't fastened firmly to the cockpit.

If the bearings themselves are worn, they can be shimmed. If water is entering from the rudder tube, could be that the packing gland has come loose. Or just need grease.

E35 owners will know more. If it was me, I'd find a way to apply lateral forces on the rudder (imitating conditions at sea) and try to reproduce the movements for observation.

 

[Rick R.]

While Christain's boat is not that vintage (nor is ours), your fix to the banging could be as simple as tightening the bolts that hold the rudder to the deck. I've done it and so has CW. The water leak sounds like the gland but could just be as simple as adding a large amounts of grease.

 

[TakeFive]

Unlikely a few bumps will damage your shaft. If your sailing hard it's more likely you discovered the wear and tear on an old shaft. As others have said, tighten anything that turns, fill everything else with marine grease.

I would take a close look at your 1/2" of damage. If FB is cracked or holed to core, I would slap some underwater epoxy on it.
Proper repair when next pulled out. Filling the rudder core with water isn't going to help a worn shaft next time you push it.

 

[RedHerring]

Continuation of the story (Ericson 35-2, occasional loud knocking noise from the rudder when sailing hard).

Hauled the boat, fixed the rudder tip, checked play. Almost no movement at the lower end (I'd say at the lower bearing, but I don't see any bearings there, looks like it's just fiberglass). All the rudder movement and knocking happens at the upper bearing / emergency tiller fitting. Bolts that attach the fitting to the deck are tight. There is play in the upper bearing - this is what causes the knocking.

Before I pull it apart, just wanted to check if someone would kindly give me a technical drawing / photos / advice / otherwise help me to understand how it's put together and not screw it up in some interesting way. Don't have much experience dealing with steering systems.

By the way, do I get it right that the same fitting is what keeps the rudder from dropping down the post shaft? The boat is in the water, so I intend to wrap the rudderpost in a few layers of cloth and clamp it with a C-clamp or vise grip right at the gland, that it doesn't drop out when I take the fitting apart. Is this the right way?

 

[toddster]

My boat is a bit older than yours, but it has no bearings per se. Just a steel shaft in a plastic tube. (Note to self, do take the grease gun to the boat today.) There are two 3/8" through bolts at right angles to one another that attach the rudder post to the tiller head. That is all that holds the rudder on to the boat. If wear develops around those bolt holes, there will be some play in the steering system.

So... A couple of weeks ago, I step on something while docking. Glancing down, I see the nut and washers for one of those bolts sliding toward the scupper. The other bolt is backed half way out. :0 WTF...?

Gotta develop a check list and a schedule for inspecting vital bits like that.

 

[Christian Williams]

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...der-Bushing-Vesconite-Source&highlight=rudder

Link above has some photos here using Vesconite as a bushing. Also see mentions of West System injection fixes.

On some mid-80s Ericsons, the top rudder bearing (attached under the cockpit deck), is basically just a sleeve full of grease. Ball bearings, maybe. Very simple.

So maybe you can shim it. On some boats the whole top bushing assembly tends to get loose, and needs tightening from beneath. Movement can only be detected from below.

Dunno if the fitting is the same with a tiller.