Rounding Up in a Gust

[psanburn]

I was out this past weekend on our 30+ with great winds around 15-18. The boat sailed beauitfully, giving my son and I big wide smiles. When 20+ gusts would come through we would spill some wind by letting the traveler way out, but often times we rounded up pretty hard. I am curious what others do in this situation.
One seasoned sailor suggested furling the headsail a bit, but that seems to run contrary to weather helm dynamics. I like the way the boat sails in the 15-18 knot range, so am reluctant to put a reef in the main. When I see a gust coming, sometimes I fall off just a bit just before the gust hits and then slowly head back up.

Note- I've always been a seat-of-my-pants kind of sailor, and having learned on a Hobie cat, always like it when she's leaned way over. I may not go the fastest, but it's a lot of fun.

Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks,
Peter S
Bayview, ID

 

[Loren Beach]

I looked at the great sailing photos in your bio. Nice!


Large main, fractional rig, higher CE in that big main. I would put in the first reef at about 14 kts; that'l lower the CE and much reduce the round-ups. Should even out the helm pressure a lot, too.

Then you can sheet it in and adjust for a good shape in the reefed main.

Our boat differs somewhat in that it has a masthead rig, altho we do have a large amount of area in the main... (sort of a 50-50 division between foretriangle and main area). We reef at about 15-ish kts for the same reason.

Boat is much faster when we can keep the low-side deck above water!

Loren

 

[mherrcat]

I would reef the main like Loren suggested (that's what I do) and leave the jib full. You won't have to struggle with the helm and the boat will still be fast.

I believe with the boat heeled more you are also more prone to rounding up in gusts.

 

[adavid]

When I see a gust coming, sometimes I fall off just a bit just before the gust hits and then slowly head back up.

You should actually be doing the opposite if you are looking to sail the fastest with the least slip sideways. If you see a gust coming, you should head up a bit, so that when it hits the boat stays on its feet and doesn't give a lot of helm (the sails may luff a little, and that is OK). Once the puff goes by, you can head back down. Playing the traveler as you say is also good.

And I definitely agree, with a 30+, once you get to a steady 15 knots +, a reef in the main makes things much better.

Andy

 

[InSync]

Maintain the angle

One trick I learned years ago from racing - once you find that sweet spot take a look at the angle at which the forestay bisects the horizon. Then ignore the telltales (well, glance at them once in a while) and simply drive to maintain that angle. And yes, as a previous poster said, drive UP in the puffs to flatten the boat (and drive down in the lulls to maintain boat speed). Just remember, whatever you do, keep it smooth and easy. With practice you will get used to seeing the puffs coming at you, look for a dark patch on the water, that way you can anticipate the puffs and drive up as they are coming at you. Makes for a smoother (ie faster!) ride! Fair winds!

 

[cimarronE35]

Turn up in the puffs going upwind, down in the puffs going down wind. I know it feels good when the boats super powered up but, she will be alot happier if you reduce a little sail.

 

[steven]

In winds into the low twenties you can learn to feather into the gusts by the feel of the pressure on the boat. Have someone spot for you so you don't hit anything and try sailing to weather blindfolded. Try it first in low teens. May the force be with you.

 

[Seth]

Overpowered

The fact is you have too much sail up for the conditions. You did not mention what size genoa you had up. If is a 150, and are sailing in 20 knots, you simply have too much sail up-even if you reef the main.

For fractional boats, the first major thing to do when getting overpowered (after you have flattened the mainsail, lowered the traveller and eased the sheet a bit, and moved the genoa cars aft) is to reduce headsail size if possible/feasible. The boat is more eficient with a full main (although a flattened out main) until you have no more options for reducing the headsail.

At that point, yes, reef.

In 18 knots of breeze (we are talking close hauled or close reaching here-the deeper you go the more sail you can carry for a given wind strength) you should have a flattened-out mainsail, and nothing bigger than 110% headsail (especially if you do not have a gang on the rail). Above 20, you will really want to reef the mainsail.

BTW- this is a good thing-you have a performance-oriented boat, and that by definition means you have a large sailplan, which means good light air performance. It also means you will be overpowered sooner than heavy boats with less sail area.

It would be good to tell us what sized headsail you had up and then I can give you some more specific advice.

Keep in mind that while it might look good in pictures, sailing around heeled over is SLOW. If you can keep the heel under 12-15 degrees, the boat will be MUCH faster and more comfortable.

So, tell me about your headsail!

Cheers

 

[psanburn]

Seth and others,
Thank you for your thoughtful responses. Seth, I had our 150 up.

It's becoming quite clear that I had up too much sail for the conditions. I've always been more interested in leaning here over than speed, but somehow I'll have to shake my desires to dig in the rail!

Next time it's blowing, I'll play with flatting the main, reefing the headsail and then putting a reef in the main.

I must say, the community on this site has made our ownership of our Ericson that much more enjoyable.

Peter S
Bayview, ID

 

[Seth]

There you go!

Good plan for sail reduction. In fact, if you sail in a breezy area and have a smaller headsail available you may want to use that one most of the time-above about 12 knots of True wind the 150 is just too much sail. It is not just size-a 150% genoa, in order to work well in the designed wind range, is a lighter weight and deeper cut sail than a 130, 100, or smaller headsail. Even if you roll it up (which is better than nothing), the fabric and shape are not really right for breezy conditions. So, if you do have smomething smaller I would go with that more often than not.

As for sailing around tipped over with the rail down, as fun as it might be, just remember that knowledgeable sailors will see that as a sign of inexperience. Having the right sails up for the conditrions and having your boat correctly trimmed is a much better (and more importantly-safer) way to go!

Cheers

 

[Loren Beach]

Another data point, as they say...
I was out yesterday evening for a good sail in reasonably heavy air. Steady 12 to 14 and then building to mostly 20+ with puffs to 24.
So I had up the brand new 95%, sheeted to the inside-the-shroud base tracks.
The guys with me really wanted to go out with the full main, and "see if we really need to reef" so I gave in.
Actually we were fine with the full main heading up river - mostly ddw so the jib was little help anyhow.

Coming back down we had about 18 to 22, varying. About 1.5 kts of current, too, which increased the aw going downstream.
Great sailing. Better yet, the lee side deck stayed dry, albeit we were heeled down firmly.
Thing was, I could not really get the tacking angle below about 32 degrees or so. Boat would slow down too much.

While my friends were a little skeptical of reefing, I know that we should have had a reef in for the trip back, to weather. We had the main flattened out and about 1K # on the bs adjuster.

Interesting to contrast this sailing to last fall's 15 mile thrash with the 135% in similar winds, albeit with a reef in the main. It was just way too much headsail and when we did reef the genny shape was very poor so we couldn't point well. Heeling was worse and control was iffy once in a while.

Guess I need to rethink my intuition about where to shorten sail first.
Seth is right, again!.


Currently, with this overall lower amount of square footage, we never had a round-up, either.

Today, the main went in for repair -- found a broken slug at one of the upper full battens! (two plus two batten scheme)

Sailing: When it's Good, it's VERY good.....

 

[steven]

if you need to be convinced about not sailing rail down, look at your wake. You will see that you are slipping sideways if you are too far over.

 

[psanburn]

What Is Sailing?

Not to be contradictory, but if sailing is all about going as fast as possible, as steady as possible and to hold a steady line, than I am guilty of not being a true sailor.

If sailing is about making the boat work to give you the greatest sense of exhileration, of which there is a different definition for every sailor, then I am a sailor. If other sailors judge me because I digging my rail while I have a big smile on my face, I suppose thay can judge me all they want.

Note - I've been sailing all my life (54 yrs on Sunfishes, Hobies, Solings, Scows, coastal cruising yachts, etc). I guess I have a different take on what sailing is to me.

All of that said, I value all of the comments about gainng better control during conditions that could cause our boat to round up. I'll play with all of the suggestions to find the sweet spot between our boat giving me thrills and maintaining her balance.

So if you're ever on Lake Pend Oreille and see an Ericson 30+ lifting her skirt, chances are it's me. I'll be sure to wave!

Again, this site is invaluable to me and my Ericson 30+ ownership. Thank you all for your insight and knowledge sharing.

Peter S
Bayview, ID

 

[Seth]

Do it your way!

Sailing is a personal thing, and I am definitely not telling anyone it needs to be done one way or the other. My comments were in the context of problem solving only. What matters most is that your are one of us and enjoy the beauty of sail. Far be it from me to try and change your mind about what you love.

Sail on!