Rigging asymmetrical spinnaker on E34

[mherrcat]

Is that the Selden bowsprit? Got any close-up pic of the mounting brackets?

 

[Brookelise]

Cory, are the blocks on the outer track articulating (swiveling), or are they like the one in the magnified photo below? Do you find that they're far enough aft, even at the back of the track?

On our 1984 35-3 we attach the tack to the anchor roller via a small block. The block will self-destruct, or our .75oz chute will shred long before the roller bends.

We sheet it on an adjustable car on the external track near the winch.

We do not use an ATN tacker, but do use a chute-scoop for convenience.

I do like light floating sheets though, it avoids most of the issues with getting them tangled in the prop or rudder if a gybe goes funny.

We've been happy with this setup, and I'll often fly it when by myself.

 

[CTOlsen]

Is that the Selden bowsprit? Got any close-up pic of the mounting brackets?

View attachment bowsprit09.pdfView attachment FX FXT AFX 2010 std kits.pdf

Loki's sprit is a modified Sparcraft kit. Sparcraft provided a sprit-kit with a standard aluminum extrusion. Because of the chain locker in the bow, the extrusion needs to be longer- 3 feet longer. So, after several disappointing phone calls and e-mails with Sparcraft, I concluded that the US office is completely disfunctional, unable to provide an additional (not replacement) extrusion long enough to accommidate the chain locker. At that point, i contacted Forte Carbon Products, who provided a perfect carbon tube, quickly (2 weeks), at a very reasonable price. They were great to work with.

Below is a pix of the original sprit kit with the "too short" aluminum extrusion provided by Sparcraft.

 

[Cory B]

Cory, are the blocks on the outer track articulating (swiveling), or are they like the one in the magnified photo below? Do you find that they're far enough aft, even at the back of the track?

View attachment 9581

On our 35 we have simple (but strong) swiveling blocks. On our old 32 we had the style of blocks you pictured. Both worked well for our chutes.

On the 35 we have the blocks just forward of the winches. Sliding them way aft sometimes made a mess of the line if we weren't paying attention - we probably could have found a way to do it, but the sail flew fine with the blocks moved slightly forward. I try to fly our chute with the tack just above the bow pulpit, and haven't noticed any sheeting angle issues. Its possible that if we were to race we might find a "faster" way to run it though.

Its a fun and pretty easy sail to fly once you've done it a few times, and of course it makes you a much cooler person.

 

[Brookelise]

Asymmetrical spinnaker

Interesting--so the blocks we have on the outer track may work.

On our 35 we have simple (but strong) swiveling blocks. On our old 32 we had the style of blocks you pictured. Both worked well for our chutes.

On the 35 we have the blocks just forward of the winches. Sliding them way aft sometimes made a mess of the line if we weren't paying attention - we probably could have found a way to do it, but the sail flew fine with the blocks moved slightly forward. I try to fly our chute with the tack just above the bow pulpit, and haven't noticed any sheeting angle issues. Its possible that if we were to race we might find a "faster" way to run it though.

Its a fun and pretty easy sail to fly once you've done it a few times, and of course it makes you a much cooler person.

 

[Michael Bender]

Seascape Tack Line Block Rigging

Here is how I am rigging my tack line block on Seascape (E32-3); minus the snap shackle, I settled on E#3 - Port Rope Clutch design:

Seascape Tack Line Rigging

Mike

 

[bgary]

Here is how I am rigging my tack line block on Seascape (E32-3);

Where did you find the bail you have at the top of the anchor roller? I've been looking for one, and so far have only found ones that fit-but-are-flimsy, or ones that are strong-but-not-wide-enough

(my new Ullman 1/2-oz A2 should arrive sometime soon....)

 

[Michael Bender]

Where did you find the bail you have at the top of the anchor roller? I've been looking for one, and so far have only found ones that fit-but-are-flimsy, or ones that are strong-but-not-wide-enough

(my new Ullman 1/2-oz A2 should arrive sometime soon....)

Ah you bought Christian's boat - good choice ;-) My bail was from West Marine, they sell a few different sizes. The one that's on Seascape is too wide for the anchor bracket but I shimmed it out with washers and used clevis pins to hold it in place. It has some side to side movement that I'll probably tighten up with a few more washers.

I tried to bend a narrower bail to fit at first but then realized that I'm probably stressing the metal by bending it (just a WAG, I'm not a metallurgist, but it seem to make intuitive sense). The bail I'm using now is very strong as are the clevis pins. My sailmaker (Dave Hodges from Ullman Sails) told me that I should get rid of the snap shackle and just rig the tack block to the bail.

Here is how I am rigging my tack line on Seascape (E32-3); minus the snap shackle, I settled on E#3 - Port Rope Clutch design:

Seascape Tack Line Rigging

How are you rigging your spinnaker sheets? My plan is to bring them aft to Ronstan RF64100 blocks mounted on Ronstan RC73202 rail cars then to my jib (primary) winches. I haven't rigged that yet so we'll see how that routing goes. I may need to move the blocks to the stern cleats, although Dave said the blocks on the cars should work OK. I'm using New England Ropes 3/8" (10mm) Endura Dyneema for my sheets.

 

[Michael Bender]

Where did you find the bail you have at the top of the anchor roller? I've been looking for one, and so far have only found ones that fit-but-are-flimsy, or ones that are strong-but-not-wide-enough

(my new Ullman 1/2-oz A2 should arrive sometime soon....)

Can you post some more pictures of how you lead your tack line aft? Is there a block in front of or behind the anchor locker?

 

[bgary]

Can you post some more pictures of how you lead your tack line aft? Is there a block in front of or behind the anchor locker?

I don't plan to lead a tack line aft (that photo I posted is actually one of your photos)

I plan to have a length of dynema tied to the tack ring of the sail, with a snap-shackle on the boat end. I plan to clip it to a bail on the anchor roller, as in your photo, but I (so far) haven't found a bail that is the right width and seems substantial enough. Plan B is to put temporary a dynema loop across the anchor roller.

I figure I'll find a happy tack-height and leave it there. I don't need it to be adjustable - as Loren said in another thread, this is for when the wind is light and I don't want to listen to the engine. By design, I ordered a light-air runner rather than an all-purpose "cruising" kite. I looked at "cruising" kite designs from UK, North, Ullman and others, and... they weren't what I was looking for, so I went with a more "race-oriented" A2 design from Ullman, even though it'll never be raced.

It'll have an ATN sock, but I chose not to get a "tacker" - I don't want any point-loads on my furler. If I find myself reaching hard enough that a tacker will make a difference, I'll douse the kite and roll out the genoa. Whole goal is to make this easy and stress-free - both for me and for the boat.

I got some light-air sheets made up (3/16" spectra, with a 3/8" cover added on the parts that will be handled). For blocks, I ordered a couple of Schaefer series-5 blocks with swivels and beckets - block will go on a car at the aft end of the T-track on the rail, becket will be used to tie the block up to the ilfeline so it doesn't bang around.

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/schaefer-marine-stainless-5-series-blocks-505-15?uom=0&qty=2

Hoping to get the sail before Memorial day....

 

[bgary]

Ah you bought Christian's boat - good choice ;-)

Best choice EVER! ;-)

I've been struggling with how to get the tack line back to the cockpit

A suggestion? keep it simple. Ne need to add tons of fittings to your deck, and make the line go through 90-degree turns and up onto the cabin top. Simple is better.

My suggestion for routing the tack line would be to mirror what is normally done for a furling line - a standing block near one of the pulpit bases, then a series of inline blocks along the stanchion bases, ending up at a block with a cam-cleat somewhere easy to reach from the cockpit. easy to set up without drilling a ton of holes, and easy to reconfigure as you learn what works.

ready-made kits from Schaefer: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/schaefer-marine-clear-step-block-and-line-kits
block for the cockpit end: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/harken-hexaratchet-ii-plus-2 (something like the 091)

$.02

 

[Rocinante33]

Can you post some more pictures of how you lead your tack line aft? Is there a block in front of or behind the anchor locker?

I think it is nice to have a tackline, but I don't see the need to lead it aft. I have a block attached to my bow roller and my tack line is only 6-8 feet long and is low tech line. When you fall off the wind, it's good to let the asym "belly out" those few feet to grab the air flow around the main. I use the bow cleat to secure the tackline. You have to go to the bow to do it but you have to go forward to use the sock, too, and it's not challenging like going forward when you are headed upwind. It is pretty simple this way. Btw, with respect to the low tech tack line, so what if it stretches a bit in a puff?

 

[PDX]

Best choice EVER! ;-)



A suggestion? keep it simple. Ne need to add tons of fittings to your deck, and make the line go through 90-degree turns and up onto the cabin top. Simple is better.

My suggestion for routing the tack line would be to mirror what is normally done for a furling line - a standing block near one of the pulpit bases, then a series of inline blocks along the stanchion bases, ending up at a block with a cam-cleat somewhere easy to reach from the cockpit. easy to set up without drilling a ton of holes, and easy to reconfigure as you learn what works.

ready-made kits from Schaefer: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/schaefer-marine-clear-step-block-and-line-kits
block for the cockpit end: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/harken-hexaratchet-ii-plus-2 (something like the 091)

$.02

Another option that avoids buying and installing additional hardware is to simply use the inside genoa tracks and primary winches for the tackline. It only works if your boat has inside tracks and spinnaker winches. And a fairlead from your bow roller block to the car on the inside track. When you're ready to sail upwind again you need to remove the tackline and re-run the genoa sheets. This is burdensome if you're doing it all the time but no big deal if you're sailing long downwind and upwind legs and only changing once or twice a day.

 

[Rubicon]

C Sprit - Removable Bowsprit

The C SPRIT is a Removable Carbon Fiber bowsprit designed for easy installation.

visit the website for more information


www.csprit.com

 

[Loren Beach]

The C SPRIT is a Removable Carbon Fiber bowsprit designed for easy installation.

visit the website for more information

www.csprit.com

Hmmmm
Pictured on the linked vendor url is an example boat named... Rubicon 3.
Coincidence?



Loren
site moderator

 

[Michael Bender]

I don't plan to lead a tack line aft (that photo I posted is actually one of your photos)

I plan to have a length of dynema tied to the tack ring of the sail, with a snap-shackle on the boat end. I plan to clip it to a bail on the anchor roller, as in your photo, but I (so far) haven't found a bail that is the right width and seems substantial enough. Plan B is to put temporary a dynema loop across the anchor roller.

I figure I'll find a happy tack-height and leave it there. I don't need it to be adjustable - as Loren said in another thread, this is for when the wind is light and I don't want to listen to the engine. By design, I ordered a light-air runner rather than an all-purpose "cruising" kite. I looked at "cruising" kite designs from UK, North, Ullman and others, and... they weren't what I was looking for, so I went with a more "race-oriented" A2 design from Ullman, even though it'll never be raced.

It'll have an ATN sock, but I chose not to get a "tacker" - I don't want any point-loads on my furler. If I find myself reaching hard enough that a tacker will make a difference, I'll douse the kite and roll out the genoa. Whole goal is to make this easy and stress-free - both for me and for the boat.

I got some light-air sheets made up (3/16" spectra, with a 3/8" cover added on the parts that will be handled). For blocks, I ordered a couple of Schaefer series-5 blocks with swivels and beckets - block will go on a car at the aft end of the T-track on the rail, becket will be used to tie the block up to the ilfeline so it doesn't bang around.

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/schaefer-marine-stainless-5-series-blocks-505-15?uom=0&qty=2

Hoping to get the sail before Memorial day....

Good luck with your timeline! I'm hoping to get mine ready for the Delta Ditch Run race the first weekend of July. I want an adjustable tack line to play the tack during a race.

 

[Michael Bender]

Best choice EVER! ;-)



A suggestion? keep it simple. Ne need to add tons of fittings to your deck, and make the line go through 90-degree turns and up onto the cabin top. Simple is better.

My suggestion for routing the tack line would be to mirror what is normally done for a furling line - a standing block near one of the pulpit bases, then a series of inline blocks along the stanchion bases, ending up at a block with a cam-cleat somewhere easy to reach from the cockpit. easy to set up without drilling a ton of holes, and easy to reconfigure as you learn what works.

ready-made kits from Schaefer: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/schaefer-marine-clear-step-block-and-line-kits
block for the cockpit end: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/harken-hexaratchet-ii-plus-2 (something like the 091)

$.02

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not comfortable putting any load on my stanchions or pulpit, the boat is 30 years old and the tack line has a lot of load on it. The parts of my boat that I know to be strong are the bow cleats and the inside and outside rails. In my tack line rigging design, that's what I used, and I wound up with a really simple way to rig it that limits the number of blocks I need. I updated my posts with new info and updated links that show all my tack line rigging experiments. I settled on E#3 - Port Rope Clutch design. I'm also a big fan of the Ronstan blocks, and Defender has goo prices on Ronstan stuff.

 

[Michael Bender]

I think it is nice to have a tackline, but I don't see the need to lead it aft. I have a block attached to my bow roller and my tack line is only 6-8 feet long and is low tech line. When you fall off the wind, it's good to let the asym "belly out" those few feet to grab the air flow around the main. I use the bow cleat to secure the tackline. You have to go to the bow to do it but you have to go forward to use the sock, too, and it's not challenging like going forward when you are headed upwind. It is pretty simple this way. Btw, with respect to the low tech tack line, so what if it stretches a bit in a puff?

I think that cruising and racing require different ideas about how to control stuff on a boat. Since I primarily race, leading all the control lines aft allows me and the crew to do sail trim fairly easily and quickly as conditions change and so we can get that extra bit of boat speed (from 5.0K to 5.1K, yeah I know it's faster to swim ;-) I'm thinking of running my sock control line aft as well, although that may not really be as necessary as I'm thinking it might be. Also, the conditions I race in on San Fransisco Bay are pretty challenging so anything I can do to keep my crew on the boat during a sail change during a race is much appreciated by them.

 

[Michael Bender]

Another option that avoids buying and installing additional hardware is to simply use the inside genoa tracks and primary winches for the tackline. It only works if your boat has inside tracks and spinnaker winches. And a fairlead from your bow roller block to the car on the inside track. When you're ready to sail upwind again you need to remove the tackline and re-run the genoa sheets. This is burdensome if you're doing it all the time but no big deal if you're sailing long downwind and upwind legs and only changing once or twice a day.

Unfortunately I have to share my primaries between the jib sheets and the spinnaker sheets, and during a bay race when you're rounding marks and going upwind to downwind over and over again on short legs, all the sail controls need to be ready to go right away. On a 2-hour race, you can loose a lot of time by just not having your crew dialed in to do tacks and jibes quickly enough. Cruising around with family or friends none of this matters of course. We were on a Mother's Day sail a few weeks ago and my wife told me that "we're not on a race, dear"

 

[Michael Bender]

The C SPRIT is a Removable Carbon Fiber bowsprit designed for easy installation.

visit the website for more information

www.csprit.com

This is sooooo nice - if only I didn't get a ratings hit by installing a sprit.