Removing Foam from Mast

[jkenan]

After taking my mast down and trying to remove all electical, I discoved a mass of Polyurethane foam located around the spreaders, which is firmly attached to wires preventing me from removing them and running new ones. It's rather tough stuff, can't be dissolved, and must be scrapped out.

I've thought about taking a 3.5" hole saw, drilling a plug out of of a 2x6, leaving it in the hole saw, and then screwing in several bolts into the plug to create a 'grinder'. Then, attaching this fashioned grinder to a 20' 3/8" rod which can attach to my drill, push it up the mast, and grind the stuff out.

Any other ideas?

 

[maggie-k]

Hi John there should be a solvent that will disolve the foam .. nasty stuff i'm sure . An industrial plastic outlet should be able to help you out , even better if you can get a sample of the foam . once you get a hole threw it you should be able to pull a slug threw the mast to knock out he rest .

 

[Sven]

I have a feeling we're about to be treated to the gasoline in the mast turned into a rocket launch story again.

Hmmm, what to search for in the archives ... styrofoam peanuts perhaps ?



-Sven

 

[HGSail]

Sounds like the squirt in stuff..... Good Luck.

I think your plan is as good as any.

It sounds like the P.O. didn't want to seal the top of the mast so he just squirted some foam in at the speader plates to keep any water from getting down to the cabin. The only prob. would be that any water that enters the mast would collect at the speaders, And that I would think would create other problems.

Pat
E29
#224
Holy Guacamole

 

[Guy Stevens]

I hate it when they do that.

About 3 gallons of acetone has generally made a great big mess of the situation, but has gotten the stuff out of some masts, and off of an entire windlass that was "packed" in it. The owner got the idea that spray in foam was a great way to close off the chain pipe....What a mess....


Guy

 

[Emerald]

Ah Sven,

you have such a good memory of my attempts to turn my mast into a flame thrower, rocket launcher etc. Yep, that foam in my old E-27 cost me about 1 week of digging it out. Ended up using very long pieces of PVC to break it up little by little, and then a shop vac to suck out the parts to expose the next layers to mechanically break free. Really really sucked.


That all said, I am finishing up a total rudder recore, and poured my high density foam the other night -quite the experience, and I must say Foss Foam was of great help in guidance, but that's another story.


Back to this problem. As part of my above foam experience, I have done a bit of research on disolving polyurethane foams (wanted to disolve some of the foam core out of my rudder). Bottom line is forget it. There is a highly toxic and elusive chemical out there that I can't pin down that has some effect, but the bottom line is you probaby can't get it and don't want to use it even if you could get it, and you are going to have to mechanically remove this stuff. I am afraid you need to write off all your mast wires. They are going to be destroyed in this. Your initial thoughts of making a mechanical device to spin is probably your best bet. I would be tempted to start with something small e.g. 1 inch diameter pipe so you can control it, and make cuts into the end of the pipe so it will tear up what it spins against - I am thinking something like a piece of pipe with cuts down into it so it looks like the parapets/merlons on a castle tower. This would give you a toothy end that ought to rip up the foam. I believe you will find the wires are going to be history as there is no way to seperate them from the foam.


This is going to be a nasty job, and you need to cover all skin and wear a good respirator (not a paper think, a real one with pods). The dust you will produce is terrible - makes grinding fiberglass fun.


Good luck, and let us know what you did in the end.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald



p.s. for those interested in my recore rudder project, check here, and I will be adding the parts on pouring the foam over the next several nights, so check back for more info shortly:

http://home.comcast.net/~independence31/rudder/rudder-intro.html

 

[jkenan]

Thanks for all the replies. Hopefully, the PO didn't squirt the whole can in there.

I think my strategy will be multi-fold:
1) attach a sharp metal spike to the end of PVC and punch it into the foam several times to start breaking it up deeper within, then
2) work with a grinder of sorts to break it up on the surface, then
3) Vacuum, then
4) Repeat

Got the respirator, need to get the suit.

Will let you all know how it goes. Thanks again.

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Make a pronged device like a garden weasel (as seen on TV) and it will break out chunks. Remember a tool like that needs to be liquid cooled (Bud Light is my choice)

 

[hodo]

So would it work to take a hacksaw and cut teeth into the end of the pvc pipe, and make an attachment to couple your shop vac to the pvc pipe? Kind of like taking core samples. Good Luck, Harold

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Are you saying a vacuum assisted garden weasel? Would this require less liquid cooling?

I like the PVC idea, cheap adjustable length with glue couplings and a saw and the vacuum on the end of the pipe eliminate much of the mess. A bell reducer big end out and you have expanded the cutting area. If the jagged PVC doesn’t cut metal prongs on the PVC and still use the vacuum.

Is foam fill common on Ericson mast????? I plan to go to internal halyards.

 

[Bob in Va]

How about several shots from a potato gun?

 

[jkenan]

Lets get back to rocket launcher idea- I think the fundamentals were sound, but putting the flamable compound at the open base of the mast is the problem. The top of the mast is sealed, so, drill a hole up there, pour the gas in, seal it with a fuse, and voila - a rocket launcher with a foam prestage.

This, of course, will require lots of liquid cooling. But will the yard allow it...?

 

[HGSail]

The foam sounds like a P.O. thing. Mine is a '73 and there isn't any foam inside.

The PVC idea sounds like it would work well, But to be on the safe side, I would impliment the liquid cooling procedure. But not too much though, for that can lead to unforseen complications.

Pat
E29
#224
Holy Guacamole

 

[hodo]

OK, the proper liquid for cooling on this job would be a nice cool nut brown ale. Trust me, I know these things. Bob concerns me. He's talking about a couple shots from a potato cannon. That would be vodka, right? And Randy, what are you thinking? A vacuum on a garden weasel. How are you going to hold him? I tried that with a cat when I was much younger, and that wasn't pretty. This led to my parents saying something like "We dont' know what's wrong with you, but it's got to be hard to pronounce." GOOD LUCK, Harold

 

[Art Mullinax]

What If?

What if you drill several 1/4" holes in the end of the PVC pipe and insert short lengths of wire rope that has the ends frayed out? Sorta like an engine cylinder burnishing tool? When you reach the area with the foam, Somehow connect it to your drill motor and spin! Then, connect the vacumn hose to the PVC pipe to remove the small pieces. Just a thought!

 

[Bob Grenier]

What about this?

How about renting a power drain tool...like below...I've used these to cut out roots from a drain, should make short work of some foam.

http://www.azpartsmaster.com/shopazp/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=GW-PVB

http://secure.data-comm.com/GL/Detail.bok?no=87344

 

[Seth]

Who said this?

"...put your lips together and blow..."

Loved the rocket launcher idea. The only real way to do this is to take everything (halyards, wire harness, spreader bars, etc) and go do a proper cleaning out of the rig-but of course that is a huge project-wait until those other things become a priority...

Lotsa luck!

S

 

[Sven]

A vacuum on a garden weasel. How are you going to hold him? I tried that with a cat when I was much younger, and that wasn't pretty. This led to my parents saying something like "We dont' know what's wrong with you, but it's got to be hard to pronounce."

That was so good I'm quoting it out of context and including it in random places in e-mails to unsuspecting friends :-D

(Lots of C&C complaint coming my way, but worth it !)


-Sven

 

[hodo]

Sven, Glad to make you smile, feel free to bring mirth to those that are deprived. Happy Sailing, Harold

 

[jkenan]

The Weasel Worked!!! The foam is out of there!

I opted for the simpler weasel w/o vacuum - 1" PVC Conduit with several 1/16" holes drilled in one end, thru which I passed 4 strands of unraveled 1x19 wire cut to about 8" (stiff and curly) all the way thru, pointed the 8 ends down, and then twisted the protruding ends in pairs to add stiffness and also to keep them pointing down (otherwise they'd turn upward too easily). The other end fit snugly into a 1.5" hole saw, which I fastened to the PVC thru the plug push-out slots in the saw. Attached it to the drill, pushed it into the foam, and that was one ferocious little rascal!

After the carnage, a shop vac hose pushed up the mast cleared things out quickly. Now, the weasel is decapitated, and I can repurpose the conduit to run electrical up the mast (which is why I didn't opt for the vacuum model requiring wider PVC).

On my E29, wider PVC wouldn't work b/c there is a bolt/rod connecting the spreader flanges, so you couldn't clear anything above that point. I couldn't have known since it was all encased in foam.

What a relief! Thanks everyone for your great suggestions. I'm still laughing at few of 'em...

Now it's on to the chainplates...