Re-powering
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Repowering your E27.
Nestor, Give serious though to keeping that A4 and putting a fraction of the money it would cost for a diesel into bringing the old girl back to life. They are very reliable engines an with modern improvements such as elecronic ignition, a modern needle and seat in the carb that will prevent it from leaking at rest, a heat exchanger and a Cruising Design, Inc. (CDI) prop specifically designed for your engine, you'll have a powerful, reliable power plant that will last you two lifetimes and if I had to guess you will have spent well under $1,500.00, maybe even less to do it. This from an Ericson owner with a diesel, so no bias is influncing my recommendation other than to say the if I were in your shoes, I'd keep the A4. And on another note, with the purchase cost of an E27 today, you'd never see much if any of a return on your investment in a diesel when the time came to sell her. Good luck, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
Nestor, Give serious though to keeping that A4 and putting a fraction of the money it would cost for a diesel into bringing the old girl back to life. They are very reliable engines an with modern improvements such as elecronic ignition, a modern needle and seat in the carb that will prevent it from leaking at rest, a heat exchanger and a Cruising Design, Inc. (CDI) prop specifically designed for your engine, you'll have a powerful, reliable power plant that will last you two lifetimes and if I had to guess you will have spent well under $1,500.00, maybe even less to do it. This from an Ericson owner with a diesel, so no bias is influncing my recommendation other than to say the if I were in your shoes, I'd keep the A4. And on another note, with the purchase cost of an E27 today, you'd never see much if any of a return on your investment in a diesel when the time came to sell her. Good luck, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
tenders
Innocent Bystander
The first key to the amazing amount of support which exists for Atomic Fours is Don Moyer. Parts orders I place with him come overnight here in Westchester, NY.
www.moyermarine.com
www.moyermarine.com
Hi Nestor,
unless you've got a serious long range fuel cruising requirement, save your money for something like new sails and keep using the A4. I've owned and worked on A4s for years, and they are great little motors. Glyn is right on that the few "worry" items -ignition, mechanical fuel pump (if it even is that old), can be easily upgraded for a few boat bucks. If you're worried about explosion, I'd point out two things. If you carry any sort of fuel e.g. stove alcohol, you are at risk for collecting fumes in your bilge and should run your blower, diesel or not. Next, look at the quantity of gas engine power boats. How often do you here of an issue that wasn't tied to someone doing something stupid? One last thing, having repowered boats with different engines, this is not a pull and drop-in operation. It takes quite a bit of planning and adjustment. Guarantee you'll end up changing about everything and reusing almost nothing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be overly negative, but just realistic on what you are getting into, and this is where I have to kick myself sometimes. It's easy to get caught up in cool projects and overlook spending the money on something that will give you more pay back, like a really nice set of sails.
unless you've got a serious long range fuel cruising requirement, save your money for something like new sails and keep using the A4. I've owned and worked on A4s for years, and they are great little motors. Glyn is right on that the few "worry" items -ignition, mechanical fuel pump (if it even is that old), can be easily upgraded for a few boat bucks. If you're worried about explosion, I'd point out two things. If you carry any sort of fuel e.g. stove alcohol, you are at risk for collecting fumes in your bilge and should run your blower, diesel or not. Next, look at the quantity of gas engine power boats. How often do you here of an issue that wasn't tied to someone doing something stupid? One last thing, having repowered boats with different engines, this is not a pull and drop-in operation. It takes quite a bit of planning and adjustment. Guarantee you'll end up changing about everything and reusing almost nothing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be overly negative, but just realistic on what you are getting into, and this is where I have to kick myself sometimes. It's easy to get caught up in cool projects and overlook spending the money on something that will give you more pay back, like a really nice set of sails.
bigtyme805
Member III
I would agree with the responses so far, keep the A4, you would never see a dime of that upgrade on the E27 for that diesel. It would be more wise to invest in sails etc,..
Now on the other hand if you are going to keep that boat and do some serious cruising then definitely consider changing your A4. I guess more information is needed before the guys on this forum will give you all the info you need.
Although, I will tell you that there are a few manufactures that have replacement diesels for that A4. One being Universal and other being Westerbeke. New engine around 7-8k. Does not include installation. I am sure Yanmar has one as well. These would be the major players for that diesel you are looking for.
Now on the other hand if you are going to keep that boat and do some serious cruising then definitely consider changing your A4. I guess more information is needed before the guys on this forum will give you all the info you need.
Although, I will tell you that there are a few manufactures that have replacement diesels for that A4. One being Universal and other being Westerbeke. New engine around 7-8k. Does not include installation. I am sure Yanmar has one as well. These would be the major players for that diesel you are looking for.
tonysantos
Junior Member
Beta Marine
I just recently finished repowering my E-27 from Yanmar YSB 8 to a Beta Marine BZ482. Both diesel! Emerald is absolutely right saying that you'll be " ...changing about everything and reusing almost nothing..." None of the old systems (fuel, exhaust, cooling) were compatible. It took 10 times longer than I expected and cost a hell of alot more because of all modifications. I love the new engine but I should have just rebuilt the old one.
I just recently finished repowering my E-27 from Yanmar YSB 8 to a Beta Marine BZ482. Both diesel! Emerald is absolutely right saying that you'll be " ...changing about everything and reusing almost nothing..." None of the old systems (fuel, exhaust, cooling) were compatible. It took 10 times longer than I expected and cost a hell of alot more because of all modifications. I love the new engine but I should have just rebuilt the old one.
FullTilt E28
Member III
If your going to spend the money
The Kubuta marine converted engines are very nice -and they have done a good job setting them up so they drop right in to existing engine mounts. I have met a number of people that have gone with them and have nothing but great things to say about them. The engines them selves are very well thought out and have a history of being great little engines. If I were doing a repower they would be very high on my list - as their prices are very competitive when compared to the classic marine engine makers. Not to mention you can find parts for them almost anywhere.
Beta marine engine would be very high on my list to research.
The Kubuta marine converted engines are very nice -and they have done a good job setting them up so they drop right in to existing engine mounts. I have met a number of people that have gone with them and have nothing but great things to say about them. The engines them selves are very well thought out and have a history of being great little engines. If I were doing a repower they would be very high on my list - as their prices are very competitive when compared to the classic marine engine makers. Not to mention you can find parts for them almost anywhere.
Beta marine engine would be very high on my list to research.
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FullTilt E28
Member III
Another thought
When we were looking for a boat just this year - Any A4 boat was off the list no matter how nice the boat was or how new or well maintained the A4 was. Most people I know will not buy a gas - A4 powered boat so if you can afford it - put the diesel in it - enjoy it then when it comes time to sell - your boat will be at the top of the pile when it comes to major Pluses for boat shoppers. An E27 with an A4 is worth about 8-10 grand less than an E27 with an diesel given the going rate for an E27 you do the math - you either end up with a boat worth nothing (A4) or your have a boat you can sell at the high end of the market price.
When we were looking for a boat just this year - Any A4 boat was off the list no matter how nice the boat was or how new or well maintained the A4 was. Most people I know will not buy a gas - A4 powered boat so if you can afford it - put the diesel in it - enjoy it then when it comes time to sell - your boat will be at the top of the pile when it comes to major Pluses for boat shoppers. An E27 with an A4 is worth about 8-10 grand less than an E27 with an diesel given the going rate for an E27 you do the math - you either end up with a boat worth nothing (A4) or your have a boat you can sell at the high end of the market price.
Bill Upchurch
Member II
Sounds like your mind is made up about getting rid of the A4. However, I think the A4 belongs in the Ericson. They are both classics and dependable. The "Atomic Bomb" handle is not deserved. For my money they were made for each other.
Bill Upchurch
E35 11
Bill Upchurch
E35 11
Whether to combust Oil or Gas
There is no perfect answer to the A4 vs diesel replacement quandary...
Some random thoughts:
If you buy a boat cheap(er) because it has a gas engine, you will sell it cheap(er) someday. No penalty.
Boats with a gas engine have a more limited market pool of willing buyers.
Time is money... when you lack time. Having to sit on a gas-engine sailboat for a long time before taking that lower offer will cost you in moorage, insurance, and lost $ value while your boat money is tied up.
Whether you think the buyers are well-informed or mis-informed, many of them indeed will not even look at a gas engine sailboat, and quite a few more will also not consider a really old diesel and/or a raw water-cooled one.
Pressure to "go diesel" could also come from your insurer and surveyor.
Two important factors are going to be the length of time in years that you plan to keep your boat, and the intrinsic worth of the boat itself. An Ericson is one brand that will continue to attract buyers wanting good design and construction quality.
Major Upgrade Diesel Engine $$ have to be viewed as a longer-term investment in your pleasure in using the boat. For most of our boats, burning a half gallon per hour really reduces time circling the fuel dock, too.
And someday when you decide to sell, you will quickly atrtract more potential buyers.
One note on the process of upgrades to any 30 year old sailboat: There will soon come a day when the original A4 will start to need of lot of spendy bits like a new fuel tank, controls, panel, and etc. With a new engine you start over with a new trans, panel, mounts, alternator, etc, etc -- and a warranty.
Strictly a Personal Opinion: Like some other posters here, I and my wife would never have purchased a gas inboard sailboat when we were shopping.
Fair winds,
Loren
There is no perfect answer to the A4 vs diesel replacement quandary...
Some random thoughts:
If you buy a boat cheap(er) because it has a gas engine, you will sell it cheap(er) someday. No penalty.
Boats with a gas engine have a more limited market pool of willing buyers.
Time is money... when you lack time. Having to sit on a gas-engine sailboat for a long time before taking that lower offer will cost you in moorage, insurance, and lost $ value while your boat money is tied up.
Whether you think the buyers are well-informed or mis-informed, many of them indeed will not even look at a gas engine sailboat, and quite a few more will also not consider a really old diesel and/or a raw water-cooled one.
Pressure to "go diesel" could also come from your insurer and surveyor.
Two important factors are going to be the length of time in years that you plan to keep your boat, and the intrinsic worth of the boat itself. An Ericson is one brand that will continue to attract buyers wanting good design and construction quality.
Major Upgrade Diesel Engine $$ have to be viewed as a longer-term investment in your pleasure in using the boat. For most of our boats, burning a half gallon per hour really reduces time circling the fuel dock, too.
And someday when you decide to sell, you will quickly atrtract more potential buyers.
One note on the process of upgrades to any 30 year old sailboat: There will soon come a day when the original A4 will start to need of lot of spendy bits like a new fuel tank, controls, panel, and etc. With a new engine you start over with a new trans, panel, mounts, alternator, etc, etc -- and a warranty.
Strictly a Personal Opinion: Like some other posters here, I and my wife would never have purchased a gas inboard sailboat when we were shopping.
Fair winds,
Loren
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Kevin Johnston
Member III
A4
To reiterate the value of the A4, I love ours. It is extemely reliable and easy to work on. I have been aboard other boats with a diesel and they are more preferred but the A4 record is extremely good. Safety relates to your maintenance and behaviors (running the blower and visual inspections).
So as a sailor, I want to sail not motor. But when I have to motor the A4 is very quiet, the sound in the cabin and cockpit is negliable with the gas A4. I have sound dampering material lining the engine compartment. Definitely a plus. I have pulled up under power to a peir and had many other boaters ask what I am power with because it is so quiet. I would have trouble justifying the expense on an upgrade to a desiel on this size boat unless the systems (motor, controls and transmission) were all in need of replacement.
KJ
To reiterate the value of the A4, I love ours. It is extemely reliable and easy to work on. I have been aboard other boats with a diesel and they are more preferred but the A4 record is extremely good. Safety relates to your maintenance and behaviors (running the blower and visual inspections).
So as a sailor, I want to sail not motor. But when I have to motor the A4 is very quiet, the sound in the cabin and cockpit is negliable with the gas A4. I have sound dampering material lining the engine compartment. Definitely a plus. I have pulled up under power to a peir and had many other boaters ask what I am power with because it is so quiet. I would have trouble justifying the expense on an upgrade to a desiel on this size boat unless the systems (motor, controls and transmission) were all in need of replacement.
KJ
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I will be repowering my E27 with an electric motor soon. After having an electric motor on my E23 I miss the simplicity, quiet, no fumes and no plumbing.
Current technology includes regenerative capabilities.
http://www.ozecodrive.com
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sailboatkit.htm
http://www.re-e-power.com/
http://www.kraeutler.at/bootsmot_e.htm
http://www.sillette.co.uk/elect_saildrives.pdf
Current technology includes regenerative capabilities.
http://www.ozecodrive.com
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sailboatkit.htm
http://www.re-e-power.com/
http://www.kraeutler.at/bootsmot_e.htm
http://www.sillette.co.uk/elect_saildrives.pdf
New Wave
Mark, Was your E23 a true add-on(as shown) or elec-trolling motor on the bracket, as I've seen some use?
I've got a 42# Minnkota trolling motor mounted on my rudder for "dead-calm" fishing(freaks-out the fishermen)
I've given some sort of more powerful elec."some" thought, as I rarely use my Honda 8. I prefer to sail in & out if possible!(sailor @ heart)
Sure would be nice to "lose" the "iron wind" and clean-up a pretty transom!
Mark, Was your E23 a true add-on(as shown) or elec-trolling motor on the bracket, as I've seen some use?
I've got a 42# Minnkota trolling motor mounted on my rudder for "dead-calm" fishing(freaks-out the fishermen)
I've given some sort of more powerful elec."some" thought, as I rarely use my Honda 8. I prefer to sail in & out if possible!(sailor @ heart)
Sure would be nice to "lose" the "iron wind" and clean-up a pretty transom!
The Land of OZ
Mark, Thanks for the update! I run my Min off-of my twin house batteries(plug-in @ the transom). Love having it on the rudder, for manoeuverability, but it's a measly 12v. Wasn't even aware of the 36v's!
I've always thought about going "inboard"(hate the #'s in the wrong place). The MK2 has a perfect "home" under the companionway. The OZ system looks "very" promising! I'm sure there's room for another "bank" under the quarter berths. ALL the weight in all the right places. And "rechargeable" too! Who would miss .2K @ hull speed?
Thanks for the "links"! Good Winter reading/planning!
Mark, Thanks for the update! I run my Min off-of my twin house batteries(plug-in @ the transom). Love having it on the rudder, for manoeuverability, but it's a measly 12v. Wasn't even aware of the 36v's!
I've always thought about going "inboard"(hate the #'s in the wrong place). The MK2 has a perfect "home" under the companionway. The OZ system looks "very" promising! I'm sure there's room for another "bank" under the quarter berths. ALL the weight in all the right places. And "rechargeable" too! Who would miss .2K @ hull speed?
Thanks for the "links"! Good Winter reading/planning!
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