Frank Langer
1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I am always hesitant to mess with holes in the hull--either trying to close existing ones or creating new ones. I wonder if you are considering this because it is so hard to reach the seacock to open/close it--I almost dislocate my shoulder doing so on my E30+. If that's the issue, have you (or anyone) considered developing a mechanism to open/close the seacock--such as a foot long handle clamped to the seacock handle which would prevent having to reach waaaaay back there to get to it?
Just a thought....
Frank.
Just a thought....
Frank.
Hi,
I had the same issue with access for the raw wtr thru hull on my 27. I could barely reach with the tips of my fingers via the engine compartment and not at all under the sink. I contemplated moving it, then decided to open up a larger access via the engine compartment. I used a small router (laminate router) to open up the hole for better access. I now don't have to strain so much, but still have the inconvenience of going through the engine compartment. I really dont mind so much though as it is a good idea to take the cover off frequently to check for fuel leaks etc. If you do use a laminate router be careful as it can be a pretty wild tool and you will likely not have both hands for control due to the difficult access.
I had the same issue with access for the raw wtr thru hull on my 27. I could barely reach with the tips of my fingers via the engine compartment and not at all under the sink. I contemplated moving it, then decided to open up a larger access via the engine compartment. I used a small router (laminate router) to open up the hole for better access. I now don't have to strain so much, but still have the inconvenience of going through the engine compartment. I really dont mind so much though as it is a good idea to take the cover off frequently to check for fuel leaks etc. If you do use a laminate router be careful as it can be a pretty wild tool and you will likely not have both hands for control due to the difficult access.
Dave Hussey
Member III
I recently put a new seawater thru hull in the starboard side, of my E27 attempting to mirror the location that the factory used on the port side. It is easy access from the quarter berth. I haven't hooked it up to the engine yet, but at least the scary part is done (hole in hull). I would gladly share the details if you are interested.
Attachments
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hull reinforced.jpg
I like all the suggestions and Dave thanks for the pick. I was looking at it yesterday to put it just in the spot Dave did but my battery box is right there glassed in. I was thinking of just under the stairs by the bilge sump further up just on top of where keels starts. bad or good comments on this
I think my battery box would also preclude where Dave put his (or maybe it ends up aft of the box). Nice access, though.
I remove the door under the sink to make it easier get my shoulder under the sink and stick my hand waaaaay back there to grab the handle. Still, it's a PIA.
I remove the door under the sink to make it easier get my shoulder under the sink and stick my hand waaaaay back there to grab the handle. Still, it's a PIA.
Not to bust your stones but with that much room why not use a proper flanged seacock? RT
Dave Hussey
Member III
Rob, I dont understand your question. What is a "proper flanged seacock" and why should I want one? The original gate valves survived over 20 years and were replaced with these ball valves which should last another 20 years. By that time I'll be almost 80. Seems to me there are alot of products on the market touted to be must-have items for the savvy sailor, but do I really need them? I don't know... I guess ignorance is bliss :nerd:
But I'm always open to better ideas...please explain.
Thanks.
But I'm always open to better ideas...please explain.
Thanks.
Dave,
I'm not trying to pick on you. I'm just going by what other "experts" have recommended and what I installed in my boat due to those recommendations. A flanged seacock has a flange that is bolted through the backing plate and sometimes the hull as well to retain the seacock in event of an impact from outside or something heavy falling on it from inside.
What you have installed is a ball valve on a thru-hull fitting. One of the problems with a ball valve screwing onto a thru-hull is that the threads are different. The thru-hull has NPS threads and the ball valve is NPT. This often results in not enough thread contact between the two.
Now thats not to say you don't see plenty of ball valve/thru-hulls used as well as the lingering gate valves you mentioned. The full flanged seacock is supposed to be able to withstand a forceful kick or IIRC a 200lb side load without breaking? The thru-hull fitting is likely to snap off under that load in your installation. Your installation looks pretty open and likely to have things sliding around in that storage location?
Its obviously your choice to use whatever you want in your boat. I would hate to see something bad happen to your boat if that setup failed and I had not said anything. Again, I am merely repeating what I have read in many different publications, most notably Nigel Calders books. Attached is a pic of my seacock install under the galley sink. Hope this clears this up.
Check out this link to flanged seacocks, ball valves and the differences:
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/siteMap.do?action=map2&catId=164
RT
I'm not trying to pick on you. I'm just going by what other "experts" have recommended and what I installed in my boat due to those recommendations. A flanged seacock has a flange that is bolted through the backing plate and sometimes the hull as well to retain the seacock in event of an impact from outside or something heavy falling on it from inside.
What you have installed is a ball valve on a thru-hull fitting. One of the problems with a ball valve screwing onto a thru-hull is that the threads are different. The thru-hull has NPS threads and the ball valve is NPT. This often results in not enough thread contact between the two.
Now thats not to say you don't see plenty of ball valve/thru-hulls used as well as the lingering gate valves you mentioned. The full flanged seacock is supposed to be able to withstand a forceful kick or IIRC a 200lb side load without breaking? The thru-hull fitting is likely to snap off under that load in your installation. Your installation looks pretty open and likely to have things sliding around in that storage location?
Its obviously your choice to use whatever you want in your boat. I would hate to see something bad happen to your boat if that setup failed and I had not said anything. Again, I am merely repeating what I have read in many different publications, most notably Nigel Calders books. Attached is a pic of my seacock install under the galley sink. Hope this clears this up.
Check out this link to flanged seacocks, ball valves and the differences:
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/siteMap.do?action=map2&catId=164
RT
Attachments
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First launching 010.jpg
More valve info
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=2705&referrerid=28
Here is a link is an excellent thread on this subject, with input from a surveyor and from experienced owners. Good reading.
I would vote to go with a flanged valve if you are upgrading this part of the boat.
Loren
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=2705&referrerid=28
Here is a link is an excellent thread on this subject, with input from a surveyor and from experienced owners. Good reading.
I would vote to go with a flanged valve if you are upgrading this part of the boat.
Loren
And I will give the first hand experience of having the thru-hull fitting break off directly below the ball valve when pushing a new sink drain line on to the nipple on the other side of said ball valve. I was doing this literally a few hours before launch, and had almost waited until after launch. If I had been in the water, it would have been boat sink time. I've made it my religion to replace all thru-hulls and install new flanged seacocks on every boat I've had since then (it was a '66 Columbia 24 that this happened to me on).
Here's another picture to look at to see an actuall installation -this flavor has the triangular base:
http://home.comcast.net/~ericson-yachts/thull/starboard-seacockd.jpg
Of note, my favorite place to buy seacocks etc. has become www.hamiltonmarine.com - no affiliation, just a happy customer. Their seacock page:
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/2,557.html
Good luck
.
Here's another picture to look at to see an actuall installation -this flavor has the triangular base:
http://home.comcast.net/~ericson-yachts/thull/starboard-seacockd.jpg
Of note, my favorite place to buy seacocks etc. has become www.hamiltonmarine.com - no affiliation, just a happy customer. Their seacock page:
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/2,557.html
Good luck
.
Dave Hussey
Member III
Thanks Rob, and Loren,
my eyes are wide open...looks like there is a better mouse trap afterall. I thought the flanged ballcocks were for wooden boats. I especially like those low profile Blake seacocks. But I was a nervous wreck drilling the initial hole in my hull...four more bolt holes...where's my vallium.
my eyes are wide open...looks like there is a better mouse trap afterall. I thought the flanged ballcocks were for wooden boats. I especially like those low profile Blake seacocks. But I was a nervous wreck drilling the initial hole in my hull...four more bolt holes...where's my vallium.
Through bolting seacocks.
Dave,
You don't have to drill those screw holes all the way through the hull. Go to http://www.groco.net/SVC-MAN-06/Seacocks-06/PDF/IBV-FBV-TB.pdf and you can see in figure #1 how they show it both ways, with through bolting and simply screwing into the pad with bronze lag screws and a flat washer.
Regards,
Glyn Judson, Ericson 31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA
Dave,
You don't have to drill those screw holes all the way through the hull. Go to http://www.groco.net/SVC-MAN-06/Seacocks-06/PDF/IBV-FBV-TB.pdf and you can see in figure #1 how they show it both ways, with through bolting and simply screwing into the pad with bronze lag screws and a flat washer.
Regards,
Glyn Judson, Ericson 31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA
ted_reshetiloff
Contributing Partner
Not to throw stones but Rob do you have double clamps on those hoses attached to those nice flanged seacocks? 