Raw Water Pump Leak

Kerry Kukucha

Member II
Hello All:

Have just noticed (during a 4 day trip) an accumulation of dried salt below the raw water pump on our Universal 5432. I assume it is probably a seal/gasket issue where the pump housing attaches to the engine block. As we are getting ready for a 3 week trip, I want to eliminate any potential headaches in advance!

Before I proceed to remove the pump to check, would welcome any thoughts or experiences with similar problems - is there any magic in pulling the pump? Is there a potential greater problem lurking within the pump itself?

many thanks,
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Leaking water pump.

Kerry, I'm speaking from the perspective of the water pump leaking on my Yanmar engine but I suspect that your pump is roughly similar in design. I immediately bought a new replacement pump, two bearings, one gasket and a seal that my pump was designed to use. I installed the new pump prior to a short passage and at my leisure, pulled the old one and rebuilt it on the workbench at home. I now have a spare on board should the current one ever show signs of leaking. Maybe you could do the same in your case if a replacement pump and repair parts are readily available in time for your three week passage. Hope this helps, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey,CA
 

Cory B

Sustaining Member
K-

On our Universal 5424 we developed a raw water pump leak from the shaft wearing down the graphite bearings. After removing your pump check for play in the shaft. The bearings are replaceable (graphite or otherwise), but on ours at least are difficult for DIY.

Unless you see water coming from the cover plate chances are its not a gasket issue. For water to leak from the engine gasket it would have to sneak by the WP bearings and somehow get past the WP weep holes.

And I'll second Glyns suggestion of getting a second water pump if you have any concerns. You can find them at a substantial discount over Universal/Westerbekes prices if you look around.
 
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Captron

Member III
water pump leak

The original equipment water pump on the 5432 is an Oberdorfer unit with a grease cup that must be tensioned frequently. If the grease cup runs to empty or hasn't been tightened regularly, the seals will wear out and it will leak. If yours isn't one with an oil seal as well as a water seal, then when the water seal leaks it is possible for water to leak into the crankcase.

I replaced the original Oberdorfer with a semi-custom water pump sold by Moyer Marine. Moyer makes water pumps (and other parts) for Atomic 4 gas engines. It turns out that the 5432 uses the same water pump as the old Atomic 4 so the Moyer unit bolts right up.

The Moyer unit does not have a grease cup. It uses permanently lubricated bearings instead. It also has two seals, one for oil and one for water. The water seal will wear out before the oil seal resulting in water leaking from the weep hole on the bottom aft side of the pump body casting. This leakage indicates that it's time for new seals and maybe new bearings. The other advantages of the Moyer water pump are that it has thumb screws on the front cover and uses an 'O' ring instead of a gasket on the front cover. It also has no 'jesus' clip retainer on the impeller end of the shaft. All this means that impeller replacement is greatly simplified and can be accomplished in minutes since all that needs to happen is opening the case via the thumbscrews, pulling off the old impeller, slipping in a new one and buttoning the thing up again. It also pumps more water than the stock Oberdorfer.

On the original Oberdorfer, you had to remove the cover (sealed with a paper gasket) remove the spring clip from the shaft end, hold the shaft in place with a dowel or similar and pull the impeller at the same time over the dowel (or screw driver, wahtever). If you pulled the impeller without holding it in place the shaft comes out of the seals, then you are faced with removing the entire pump, replacing the impeller, shaft, seals etc because the seals go on last over the shaft and they are on the engine side of things.

Of course you need to have spares on hand but in the case of the Moyer unit, you can reuse the o-ring where with the original, your spares kit needed to have a gasket (or permatex) as well.

In any case the Moyer is a great set of improvements to basically the same pump.

There is also a Sherwood conversion pump available (check with Torrenson Marine) that pumps still more water. I think the stock Oberdorfer pumps at something like 2.5 gpm, the Moyer at about 3.0 or 3.5 gpm and the Sherwood about 5 or 6 gpm if memory serves.

Moyer's website is http://www.moyermarine.com/index.htm

I have no axe to grind here, just a satisfied customer and E38 owner. By the way, if you call them, Don Moyer is very helpful and will spend as much time as you need answering questions.
:egrin:
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
> It also has no 'jesus' clip retainer on the impeller end of the shaft.

I have never heard of this referred to as a "jesus" clip. Circlip, yes, jesusclip, no. Is it pronounced "Gee-zus clip" or "hay-seuss clip"? Is it in the same line of hard-to-deal-with securing devices as the "effing" clip?

Just you wait, Don Moyer will be beatified someday. I hope it's a long way off.
 

Kerry Kukucha

Member II
Thanks all - great feedback! For the short term, looks like I'll rebuild the Oberdorfer.

Capt Ron: I really like the Moyer option - do you recollect if the replacement pump is their (CSOB_00_365) MMI 502 flange pump? it sure looks like the right one?
 

Cory B

Sustaining Member
FWIW The "replacement" oberdorfer pump we picked up at Fisheries Supply in Seattle was greasecup-less and used a coverplate O-ring instead of a gasket, and about the same price as Moyers, but I wouldn't knock anything that Moyer has put together.
 
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Captron

Member III
Thanks all - great feedback! For the short term, looks like I'll rebuild the Oberdorfer.

Capt Ron: I really like the Moyer option - do you recollect if the replacement pump is their (CSOB_00_365) MMI 502 flange pump? it sure looks like the right one?



You know I don't recall but it sounds right. Call Don and ask him. He's quite helpful.
 

Captron

Member III
Religious experience

> It also has no 'jesus' clip retainer on the impeller end of the shaft.

I have never heard of this referred to as a "jesus" clip. Circlip, yes, jesusclip, no. Is it pronounced "Gee-zus clip" or "hay-seuss clip"? Is it in the same line of hard-to-deal-with securing devices as the "effing" clip?

Just you wait, Don Moyer will be beatified someday. I hope it's a long way off.


It's called a Jesus clip because working on a boat is a lot like praying. You're on your knees and invoking the lord's name. I have heard them referred to as the effing clip too, usually about the time it slips off the snap ring pliers and launches itself into the bilge. Either way working on the boat can be a religious experience.

:devil:
 

Kerry Kukucha

Member II
Update & Resolution

Well, I can now add rebuilding & replacing Oberdorfer pumps to my continuing educational experience!

Initially, I put new bearings in the original pump - proceeded to go away on a 19 day trip with lots of motoring (100 hrs) & the pump ran fine until the last few days when I noticed water dripping again - prognosis: shaft needs replacing!

Back from the trip, decided to get a new pump (and a new shaft for the old one/spare). What I have discovered is that our 1988 Universal 5432/M-40 has a newer model Orberdorfer N202M-15, which is attached to the block with 4 bolts & a male shaft fitting to the engine (no grease cup). I believe earlier model boats with older 5432's may have had the N202M - 03 model, which only has 2 bolts, a grease cup & a female shaft fitting to the engine; this earlier model is what Moyer Marine sells as an after market replacement for (FYI, the N202M-15 pumps at 9.5 gpm, which is aprox 50% greater than the 03).

So, for $233., Fisheries Supplies in Seattle was able to supply the new Oberdorfer (considerable savings vs local Vancouver prices), which I installed today & we are now dripless!
 
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JEESails

Member I
Pump Adapter

I have a slow drip from the bottom of my Oberdorfer pump too (M202-7). I intended to replace the seals, gaskets and impeller and pulled the pump off yesterday. When I pulled it away from the adapter I noticed the lower right part of the pump adapter (where the drip was) is pitted and corroded pretty badly. I'm thinking I better replace the adapter too or I may not get a good seal... It looks like it's about $100 for the adapter. Could it be machined smooth again?
Now that I've got the pump apart, I think it also needs a new grease cup, cam shoe, and a lot of clean up. When I add it all up it looks like a new pump from Moyer or Fisheries would be about $150 more than rebuilding my old one (including the new adapter)... I'm leaning towards a new one.
 
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