Poll: Glow Plug Time

[Christian Williams]

OK, let's beat this to death in a friendly way, Stu.

My complaint is that you are hijacking threads to blare your alarms. No matter your good intentions, it can be irritating.

In this thread, which I started, every respondent prior to your first post indicates a probable awareness of the issues you warn about.

Your first post tells us to be aware of starter solenoids, basic safety upgrades, and somebody named Maine Sail.

If you read the posts before yours, you'd see that each writer makes reference to these areas, suggesting familiarity.

As for The Maine Sail you advise us to be aware of it, it would appear we already are, since he is elaborately cited in the initial post.

I suppose, Stu, it can be argued that if you take every EY.0 reference to a glow plug as an occasion to paste in multicolored quasi-hysterical warnings with exclamation points, you may save a life.

However, when I read a forum topic on Dinty Moore Beef Stew, I don't really expect links to cases of fatal overeating, tin-can poisoning, or alternative food sources.

Yes, I can endure repetition and the blunderbuss approach to marketing.

It just offends my delicate forum sensibilities.

Which is why I like this forum, and not Anarchy or Sail net or Catalina or others.

Could be just me.

Cheers,
Christian

 

[Maine Sail]

OK, let's beat this to death in a friendly way, Stu.

My complaint is that you are hijacking threads to blare your alarms. No matter your good intentions, it can be irritating.

In this thread, which I started, every respondent prior to your first post indicates a probable awareness of the issues you warn about.

Your first post tells us to be aware of starter solenoids, basic safety upgrades, and somebody named Maine Sail.

If you read the posts before yours, you'd see that each writer makes reference to these areas, suggesting familiarity.

As for The Maine Sail you advise us to be aware of it, it would appear we already are, since he is elaborately cited in the initial post.

I suppose, Stu, it can be argued that if you take every EY.0 reference to a glow plug as an occasion to paste in multicolored quasi-hysterical warnings with exclamation points, you may save a life.

However, when I read a forum topic on Dinty Moore Beef Stew, I don't really expect links to cases of fatal overeating, tin-can poisoning, or alternative food sources.

Yes, I can endure repetition and the blunderbuss approach to marketing.

It just offends my delicate forum sensibilities.

Which is why I like this forum, and not Anarchy or Sail net or Catalina or others.

Could be just me.

Cheers,
Christian

My post that Stu quoted is TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT for this thread. If you read that thread on C-34 it would put it into a much better context as I was responding to Ron Hill's rant... I have asked Stu to remove it from EYO because it does NOT fit the context of this thread on glow plugs.....

I do understand where Stu is coming from, and I can also understand why some feel it comes off as "preachy". I still do about 3-4 of these fixes per year, and I should be doing zero.... That is frustrating because this info has been out there since the early 90's and boats have caught fire due to these failings. I think Tom M. (EYO) and Ron H. (Catalina) were both writing about this 12-15 years ago.. It is sad that more boat yards don't pick up on this and correct the issues but they don't.

 

[supersailor]

New relays in new system

Hey everyone. Now that the Christmas ordeal is finally over, I am about to order all the stuff I've planned into my new engine electrical system. Mine is the electrical system from hell. I am planning a relay for the glow plugs along with eliminating the ammeter. I have a load management system so the ammeter is redundant. A volt meter for the engine system will replace it. A friend of mine has a Cape Dory 36 with a Perkins diesel. He added a relay for the starter solenoid also. He claims that the starter turns over faster with the relay. Anyone out there have any experience with this?


I am also curious. Is the M-25-XP also need a new alternator hanger?


Bob Morrison
Terra Nova E-34-2 1987

 

[Tom Metzger]

Here is a diagram showing the correct alternator bracket:

http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/c...ervice=200151&printoperators=200157&comment1=

The old bracket is shown on on the page for "alternator group". Go to the "Universal Catalog Index" near the top of the diagram. Select M-25/m-25XP/M-25XPA


FWIW, my 1987 E-34 is # 234 and has the good bracket.

 

[Loren Beach]

Here is a diagram showing the correct alternator bracket:

http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/c...ervice=200151&printoperators=200157&comment1=

The old bracket is shown on:

http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/c...ervice=200151&printoperators=200157&comment1=

FWIW, my 1987 E-34 is # 234 and has the good bracket.

Thanks. I'm inclined to believe that the Universal Diesel alternator bracket upgrade was a "running change" in the production of the M25XP. IIRC our '88 boat has the improved version. Out boat was built in the fall of '88, which may or may not tell exactly when the engine went onto its pallet for delivery to Ericson.

Sounds like some early engines were shipped carrying over the poorer-engineered bracket from the M25.

Does this seem possible?

And since the factory panel with its ammeter has been mentioned, I confess to liking the stock one in the cockpit where I can glance at it and see what the alternator is doing - in a general sort of way. i.e. if I have just gone thru the diesel startup it should show about 30+ amps charging for a few minutes or so; and the discharge when I depress the glow plug switch should clearly show up. Better than an idiot light...


Loren

 

[Tom Metzger]

Loren - From reply # 19 by GrandpaSteve:

"I thought so too, so it took me awhile to make the connection. My M-25XP had the old bracket, which is also pointed out as a possibility in the original service bulletin:"

 

[Grizz]

Totally confused (AKA -'Steady State')

I've opened (and re-opened) both the links that Tom M. kindly provided, intending to show what the 'old' and 'improved' alternator brackets look like. I must be an idiot, 'cuz both links look identical to me...

That said, (and probably true) it's comforting to know that Fresh Air and Shoe String wove their way through the factory in 1989 nose-to-butt, receiving similar 'on-the-fly' updates and changes. The 'improved' alternator bracket being 1 of those changes. Rummaging through assorted picture files proved this is the bracket that's mounted to the side of the 25XP on Shoe String.

It's also comforting to follow in Loren's wake, he well immersed into a 2nd decade of O-34 stewardship. I'll continue to follow and take heed.

Moving slowly with temps @ -10°F this AM!

 

[Tom Metzger]

I've opened (and re-opened) both the links that Tom M. kindly provided, intending to show what the 'old' and 'improved' alternator brackets look like. I must be an idiot, 'cuz both links look identical to me...

Marine Diesel Direct doesn't want me sending out the old diagram. I have edited the previous post so I don't look like the idiot.

If you go to the "Universal Catalog Index" near the top of the page, select M-25/m-25XP/M-25XPA and the old alternator set up will be the first item.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Grizz]

Aaaahhhhhh!

To use a tried and true expression: "I see" said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw...

Thanks Tom, that's the bracket I hoped to see and now have. And it's not the one mounted on my XP, so it's all good.

Advances in technology don't necessarily makes things easier!

Have a great day. Stay warm.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

What's a Glow Plug?

Single Cylinder Yanmar owner.

 

[supersailor]

Single cylinder

A single wouldn't move my lead mine.

Bob

 

[hjohnson]

No glowplugs here...

Though in the winter, a heat gun blowing into the air intake helps the 1gm start in the winter, though I can only do that at the dock...

My Jetta, on the other hand, needs about 5 seconds when it's -20C or colder...

 

[Christian Williams]

I replaced my glow plugs with new ones (see Thelonious Blog if interested ) as part of a general upgrade of engine harness wiring and panel gauges.

Now my engine starts instantly after 10 seconds of glow plugs. Formerly I was glowing for the count of 60 and still cranking for ten seconds --in shirtsleeves weather.

Pretty smart, huh?

Then I bench-tested the old glow plugs.

They work fine.

Obviously my problem was the wiring, connectors, ancient switches, rusty grounds, trailer connectors--one, some or all of them.

Update: In the end, the problem included the starter motor itself. A quick and inexpensive rebuild was the solution.

More on the starter motor as culprit here (click for link).

 

[C. Trembanis]

Glow Pllug

Lately my M25 requires 10-15 seconds of cranking at 60F. I probably have a glow plug or wiring issue.

How long do you energize your glow plugs?

Maine Sail warns against long glow plug excitation. He says, if I recall, that his engine starts after three seconds of glow plugs.

He suggests that glow plugs can be cooked by energizing them unnecessarily long.

Yet the M25 manual says 30 seconds. And when an engine is slow to start, most of us use more.

And--how long does your diesel typically crank before starting?

Reminds me of the Song..."Glow little glow plug glimmer glimmer." Sorry couldn't resist>>>

 

[Schrewsburyduo]

Turns out two of my three glow plugs don't work. Replacements arrived yesterday. I'm looking forward to modifying the wiring and cleaning up the old mess this week.

Oddly, though, I don't enjoy all that much being warned about my personal safety.

Why, it can get to sounding downright lecture-y. It can seem that somebody is smarter than somebody, when somebody is addressing a large audience of somebodies who are individuals of quite varied experience, needs, priorities and tastes.

In general, like Maine Sail's clarification of specifics, the information speaks best for itself. An idiot might ignore it, or not bother to understand it.

An idiot, however, is unlikely to be reading forums about yacht maintenance, and is more likely an owner with some curiosity and interest who is weighing various solutions and encountering conflicting recommendations and levels of emphasis.

This particular forum, it seems to me, assumes a commonality of interest. Namely, the Ericson family of yachts. The word Newbie seldom appears. Nobody is harshly corrected and set straight. It is not an environment for emotional debate, and threads characteristically back off rather than plunge on into hand-to-hand combat. In general, the level of experience is relatively high, the members literate, the tone respectful.

Warnings? Couldn't that go both ways?

I so agree about the Ericson forum. I have been a newbie for a while now and never thought like I was talked down at etc as happens on other sailing forums. Actually I did think that Ericson owners are a nice bunch of people that have respect and know their boats so well, and there is generally a lot of patience with people who don't know this or that. I have learned a lot from reading entries in this forum, but mostly I find it a nice place to get in touch with people about these boats, and the information is solid, no crap and righteous stuff about who knows what or who has a right to do what, given their amount of experience etc. It's all business here... It would be bad if this spirit was to change in a negative way... I don't think it will.