Pirate Hostages

[sleepingsquirrel]

Unfortunately the hostages taken Friday have been killed. I was hoping for a better outcome. It is hard for me to imagine having so little to live for that when surrounded by US warships, I would choose armed confrontation with a grenade launcher. Perhaps I'm giving too much credit to the pirates for having any reason to live. Too much credit for any intelligence. Brash ignorant youth , guided by greedy overlords. How do you deal with that?

This sickens me to realize that people have become so impoverished in some parts of the world as to become this bold. Fishing doesn't pay as well as pirating?

 

[treilley]

This sickens me to realize that people have become so impoverished in some parts of the world as to become this bold. Fishing doesn't pay as well as pirating?

Especially when all you are after is money to support your drug/alcohol/prostitution habit.

 

[sleather]

Fishing doesn't pay as well as pirating?

Heard this morning that their fishing grounds have been fished out, hence the career change.

May the sailors RIP I wonder what will become of the yacht in that part of the world.

 

[exoduse35]

for brains and good judgment these clowns get a zero! no money, no hostage shields, no way out. I hope they are publicly keelhauled, strung up by the yard arm, given 40 lashes, then are drawn & quartered! they want to play Pirate they should get to go all the way!

 

[rwthomas1]

This crap will continue until a government with balls sends gunships, etc. to simply wipe out the entire areas these "pirates" inhabit. Yes I do mean indiscriminate killing of anyone in the area. Sends a message, loud and clear that this will not be tolerated.

RT

 

[mherrcat]

The first report I saw led me to think there may have been some kind of falling out among the pirates. Waiting to hear more details.

I don't quite understand why we can declare war on drugs and war on terror but cannot declare war on piracy. We would not be declaring war on Somalia, simply war on the act of piracy. Any pirates would be fair game - Somali, Indonesian, Indian, whoever. Shoot first ask questions later; hell, we're doing it in Afghanistan and Pakistan...

 

[sleepingsquirrel]

I'm sure glad I'm not in charge because the first response I had was "NUKE'EM from orbit" as Sigourney Weaver said in Aliens .
However it make sense to let our military set yachts as bait now. It would then be easy to make examples of the criminals when caught in a trap. No mercy no quarter. I understand Somolia has some strategic value so lets own it too!

 

[Loren Beach]

Update

http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2011-02-22&dayid=547

 

[Capt. Max]

They need to target who is buying the goods they steal.
No market / No piracy.

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Capture, Torture, mutilate, leave to suffer for a few days and then kill. Allow one to survive and release him to spread the message of the fate of the others. This has been done to spread fear in the enemy throughout history and seemed to work well.

 

[CaptDan]

Capture, Torture, mutilate, leave to suffer for a few days and then kill. Allow one to survive and release him to spread the message of the fate of the others. This has been done to spread fear in the enemy throughout history and seemed to work well.

The Russian Navy employ similar tactics. You might do a Google search for a recent example, where the Russians invoked an international piracy law allowing them to dispatch the pirates and their vessel.

Given the resources in this world, it would seem a no brainer that the Somali wastrels could be neutralized in short order. But there's a serious lack of will in that department; too often when pirates are captured, they're released to attack anew. In rarer cases, like this recent occurance, the perps might be brought back to the country to face criminal charges against whom the crime was done. It's odd that, though anti-piracy laws have been established for centuries, some countries prefer to prosecute as if it were a local felony.

I hate to sound negative, but in times when 2 month old babies are required to remove their booties, and people are herded through body scanners at airports, pirates are virtually free to attack merchant ships and yachts of the free world with impunity.

Something wrong with this picture? I say so.

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"

 

[CaptDan]

They need to target who is buying the goods they steal.
No market / No piracy.

That would be nice. But, there's evidence that some (a lot?) of the booty goes to funding upstanding orgs like Al Shabob - a terrorist org allegedly aligned with Al Queda.

Chilling isn't it? Developed countries financing potential attacks against themselves.

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"

 

[IslandTime29]

These piracy issues in this region have been harrassing governments and merchants for several hundred years. It is amazing that we have not done anything about this problem, but enough Americans have not been affected by the pirates.

I do think we should provision the USS Constitution and send her over to deal with the pirates! She had a good run last time she had to handle pirates . . . . .

 

[Dan Morehouse]

One of advanced civilization's biggest liabilities is squeamishness. Any criminal's biggest advantage is the lack of it. Simple. We civilized blighters often don't realize or won't admit that SOME brutality is unavoidable. So while trying to avoid it anyway, we do silly things like responding to brutality with threats, and lawyers, and U.N. resolutions. We refuse to arm ships because the crews "aren't trained" and firearms aboard could be "dangerous". We pay ransoms to barbarians like they were a business transaction. And at the other end of ridiculous, we frisk grannies & infants in airports to show how tough we are. These pirates think we're namby-pambies...because we ARE. And if we keep doing what we're doing, we're going to get more of what we're getting.

On the other hand...we could just admit that criminals will never curb themselves, and barbarians only speak the language of barbarism. Then we might finally decide that a public hanging of 13 pirates aboard a warship in clear view of people in the most populous port in Somalia would be a step in the right direction. And we might further decide that a relentless campaign of hunting down pirate vessels and summarily blowing them out of the water would serve as an effective deterrent for every pirate we blow up. Yeah, I know there's a lot of pirates and it's a big ocean, but there used to be a lot of passenger pigeons and bison, too. Better yet, blockade their ports & sweep their coast. Sink every single vessel that tries to move without permission. You'd put them out of business in a month if you had the moxie to do it.

But I think it's more likely we're going to lose because we've forgotten how to win.


Dan Morehouse
1981 E-38 "Next Exit"

 

[CaptDan]

But I think it's more likely we're going to lose because we've forgotten how to win.

That's probably the best stated and most accurate opinion I've seen on this issue.

Capt Dan G>35II "Kunu"

 

[Loren Beach]

on carrying out Orders

Lots to agree with in Dan's take on it. One part of the puzzle not mentioned yet is the effect of modern communications on expressing national power and freedom of the seas, half way 'round the globe.
By "modern" I do not mean the internet. The biggest change in foreign policy came when a field commander (or in this case a ship captain) could confer with his superiors in a short time. Short... like a day or two with the advent of early radio and undersea cable and near instantaneous with modern satellite communications.

When Stephen Decatur was sent out to wield our foreign policy against distant pirates he had to have full authority to prosecute a (limited) war and adjudicate any pirates or other combatants he confronted or captured.
While he might have liked to have some advice now and then from his CIC, it was impossible.
Hanging pirates from yard arms was the answer for distant navies, ours and others.

I sometimes ponder what Captain Decatur might have done, subjected to hoards of rear echelon admirals and even the White House looking over his shoulder every moment.

The "grit" of captains far at sea may have changed far less (!) than the modern constraints placed on their authority.

Just a theory, mind you...

LB

 

[sleather]

One of advanced civilization's biggest liabilities is squeamishness. Any criminal's biggest advantage is the lack of it. Simple. We civilized blighters often don't realize or won't admit that SOME brutality is unavoidable. So while trying to avoid it anyway, we do silly things like responding to brutality with threats, and lawyers, and U.N. resolutions. We refuse to arm ships because the crews "aren't trained" and firearms aboard could be "dangerous". We pay ransoms to barbarians like they were a business transaction. And at the other end of ridiculous, we frisk grannies & infants in airports to show how tough we are. These pirates think we're namby-pambies...because we ARE. And if we keep doing what we're doing, we're going to get more of what we're getting.

On the other hand...we could just admit that criminals will never curb themselves, and barbarians only speak the language of barbarism. Then we might finally decide that a public hanging of 13 pirates aboard a warship in clear view of people in the most populous port in Somalia would be a step in the right direction. And we might further decide that a relentless campaign of hunting down pirate vessels and summarily blowing them out of the water would serve as an effective deterrent for every pirate we blow up. Yeah, I know there's a lot of pirates and it's a big ocean, but there used to be a lot of passenger pigeons and bison, too. Better yet, blockade their ports & sweep their coast. Sink every single vessel that tries to move without permission. You'd put them out of business in a month if you had the moxie to do it.

But I think it's more likely we're going to lose because we've forgotten how to win.


Dan Morehouse
1981 E-38 "Next Exit"

Dan, Excellent post, and I believe there are 5 ports that the pirate mother ships are operating out of so a blockade IS a possibility.

This trend towards jacking private sailboats is disturbing.

Somali pirates 'seize Danish children' in Indian Ocean

Three Danish children and their parents have been snatched by pirates who hijacked their sailing boat in the Indian Ocean, Danish officials say.

Denmark's foreign ministry said the children were aged between 12 and 16, and that two Danish crew members were also captured during the attack.

Pirates seized the boat on 24 February and were said to be heading to Somalia.

 

[Dan Morehouse]

My theory is that, subject to hordes of rear echelon admirals, and with the white house looking over his shoulder, Capt. Decatur would have suffered the same emasculation as our current commanders...with the same disappointing results. Such a structure has succeeded at almost eliminating brutality from us. But as I pointed out, SOME brutality is unavoidable if you need to get results from brutes. Unpleasant to be sure, but I see it as a choice between unpleasant and ineffective. Our current command and decision making structure would have lost the war of 1812, because they might have worried that the Battle of New Orleans was going to take place AFTER the war was over, at the unnecessary cost of many lives. And they would have concluded that it would look too bad to the rest of the world...and therefore might have tried to placate the British instead of resisting them with force of arms. And they'd have lost.

It does seem rather more desperate to be hijacking yachts rather than ships, since the only hope of profit for the pirate is ransom...there not being any cargo to sell. The fact that most of us yachties are dry wells when it comes to squeezing dough out of us or our families suggests that pirate desperation is up, and I.Q. is down...an increasingly dangerous combo.

Dan Morehouse
1981 E-38 "Next Exit"

 

[Greg Ross]

We appear to have the authority of Law

But with Human Rights considered?

http://ejil.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/2/399.short

 

[rwthomas1]

Sorry, but what a load of Euro/Hippy/Dippy?PC claptrap that is. Human Rights for the PIRATES???? Really??? What about the "rights" of the DEAD VICTIMS??? To knowingly and premeditatedly attack another vessel on the high seas, for any reason should be punishable by immediate execution. There is really no other answer. The whole damned World has gone mad with lawyers and rights with no common sense. Justice must not only be done, it must APPEAR to be done.

Unfreakingbelieveable.
RT