Sails New Sails + Furler for 1976 Ericson 27'

[sialawaysailaway90]

Hi everyone!

I was recently given my dad's starter (1976 Ericson 27'). It's great in so many ways but has so much potential. We sail very often (mainly during summer/early fall on Puget sound) to Kingston, Port Ludlow, Lanley, etc. I absolutely love it.

I am still a novice (only been sailing the past two summers, nearly everyday or weekend) and have taken a few classes (taking more later this month) but want some solid advice on sails and furlers. I don't know a lot about sails or furlers.

If I missed a 'sticky' my bad. I would just greatly appreciate advice.

I need to put a Furler on it along with new sails.

Any suggestions? I need something I can handle by myself. Right now, dropping the main in heavy winds is... terrifying. dropping the jib on top of it is even worse. Doing it all by myself is the scariest thing I have ever done in my life (unless the wind is completely dead) and that is saying a lot.


Cliffs-

-Novice (taking lessons every chance I get) needs a Furler and new jib sail and main sail

-What brands? Estimates?

*Any gurus in the PNW region that would like to see what's doable and what wouldn't on my boat would be greatly appreciated as well*

Will post pictures later today of the boat!

 

[Alan Gomes]

Hello! And congrats on your new (to you) boat.

For furlers, you can't go wrong with a Harken. They are excellent. When you order a jib to go with it, spend the extra to get a foam luff. This will definitely improve the shape of the sail when you have it partially furled.

For taming the mainsail, one of the best things I ever added was a mainsail stackpack. It's a sail cover with integrated lazy jacks. When it comes time to drop the sail, you head into the wind, cut the halyard, and it drops straight into the bag. The bag has a full-length zipper on top, so all you do is zip it up and you're done.

I also added a Tides Track system, which is a special kind of track with slides that greatly reduces friction. It works really well with my mainsail stackpack because the sail falls like a piano off a skyscraper and right into the cover. Very sweet.

Although a bit pricey--certainly more so than a conventional cover--to me it is worth the added expense. I see it not merely as a convenience--and it surely is that--but also as a safety feature. I single-hand the boat 90% of the time, and wrestling with the main in rough conditions, when the boat is flailing about, is not one of my favorite things to do. The lazy jacks and the mainsail stack cover have made that a much easier proposition.

There was a recent thread about lazy jacks, looking at the pros and cons of various systems. You might want to call that up and review it. Some folks don't care for the mainsail stack system because they find it aesthetically offensive. I do not personally, but that is of course a matter of taste. Additionally, the lazy jacks are always deployed in that system, which presents the possibility of fouling a batten on the sail when raising it. All these systems have their plusses and minuses, so a read through that thread will help.

 

[bigd14]

Welcome! The 27 is a great boat. I just installed a Harken MkIV Ocean furler on my 30+ and it works great. Pretty easy to DIY it with clear instructions and a relatively uncomplicated design.

Also, especially for singlehanding, a good tiller pilot to keep you pointed upwind under power will help make dousing sails much easier.

Does your E27 have an outboard? Or maybe the Atomic 4 inboard?

 

[Loren Beach]

I add my up-vote to the advice in replies 2 and 3.
As previously noted, if I had known how happy I would be with a furler, after installing one on my 34 footer, I would have put one on our prior 26 footer!

And, while we are helpfully spending your time and money... if your boat does not already have a spring-return ("rod)" vang, do consider adding one. After... adding a tiller pilot!

 

[Prairie Schooner]

I was recently given my dad's starter (1976 Ericson 27'). It's great in so many ways but has so much potential. We sail very often (mainly during summer/early fall on Puget sound) to Kingston, Port Ludlow, Lanley, etc. I absolutely love it.
. . .
-Novice (taking lessons every chance I get) needs a Furler and new jib sail and main sail
-What brands? Estimates?
. . .

Welcome to EYo!
We ordered new sails last fall and our decision process with many helpful responses is documented here: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/shopping-for-sails-questions.20147/

We also found the following links helpful in our decision making:

1. https://www.sailmagazine.com/gear/choosing-the-right-headsail-for-your-sailboat
2. https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/the-science-of-headsails-part-ii
3.

especially helpful in understanding the fill, warp, woof, crinkle structures of the fabric.
4. 32-3 new sails https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/32-3-sails-and-compare-the-5-annapolis-sail-lofts.16962/page-2
5. 34-2 headsail size https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/headsail-size-selection-e34-2.19524/#post-152362
6. FX v Ullman https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/fx-vs-ullman-sails.18947/
jib shredded https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/it-was-an-expensive-weekend-jib-shredded.17859/

We had all new standing rigging put on the boat and we went with the furler recommendation of our rigger, Schaefer. It's performed well for us thus far.

Learning to sail: I started as a complete novice, when a friend who raced his 34' boat said he could always use 'rail meat'. Though I'm probably a cruiser by temperament, I learned a ton about sail trim, boat handling, etc. by racing. If you can get on a local crew, you will likely learn a lot, and have fun. I've found most skippers welcome new crew who will show up reliably and have a basic amount of aptitude. If you fall in with a skipper or crew who are angry yellers, make an excuse and jump to another boat. Those folks are miserable and will suck any available fun out of the experience. I found that racing was also a good way to learn to enjoy sailing in different kinds of weather, because we go out in stuff that I might avoid otherwise. But it sounds like you do that bit anyway.

Good luck with your new adventures and expenditures!
Jeff

 

[G Kiba]

Oh my. I have to vote a resounding NO on the furler and tides marine track for your E27. Sorry to everyone who voted yes.
I owned and learned to sail on my E27. I sailed it for 18 years and agree it is a great sailing, comfortable, and accommodating boat. However, i would save the 2-3K for other things and rig a simple downhaul to help you lower the head sail. Cost maybe <$100 and maybe free if you have a length of small diameter nautical line (1/8-3/16) and a few blocks and a spare plastic cleat). Sails stay in really good condition if you flake and take them bellow. It's good training too. As far as the Main, it is a relatively small sail and if you clean and lube the slides and track it should go up really easy. PM me if you need details on a down haul.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Oh my. I have to vote a resounding NO on the furler and tides marine track for your E27. Sorry to everyone who voted yes.
I owned and learned to sail on my E27. I sailed it for 18 years and agree it is a great sailing, comfortable, and accommodating boat. However, i would save the 2-3K for other things and rig a simple downhaul to help you lower the head sail. Cost maybe <$100 and maybe free if you have a length of small diameter nautical line (1/8-3/16) and a few blocks and a spare plastic cleat). Sails stay in really good condition if you flake and take them bellow. It's good training too. As far as the Main, it is a relatively small sail and if you clean and lube the slides and track it should go up really easy. PM me if you need details on a down haul.

Hi, Grant.

A few observations to your interesting and valid perspective.

First, no need to apologize or say "sorry" to those who voted "yes" on the furler and Tides Track! One of the best things about this forum is the diversity of perspectives from which we all learn a great deal. This forum is especially good in that respect, because people present different and sometimes contrary opinions without animus or a need to "be right." It's a very healthy culture here, and (unfortunately) one not typically found on such fora.

Second, I think my and some of the other suggestions were not offered with respect to budget--though Loren did make a comment about us coming up with various ways of spending the O.P.'s time and money! So as opposed to the "let 'er rip" approach, budgetary considerations would present the need to prioritize.

Regarding a furler vs. hank-on sails: I sailed for decades with hank-on sails. In fact, it is only the last two boats I've owned that had roller furling. I totally agree with you that *if* one is going to stick with hank-on sails, a luff downhaul makes it all work much better. I referred to my setup on a previous boat in this post (#12) from February. That said, a furler is simply a great thing to have, especially a good one like a Harken. It's particularly good for when a person is single handing, since anything that keeps you off the deck is a plus. And one thing a furler can do is easily reef the sail--to a point, at least. If you roll it in too much the shape goes to pot. But with a foam luff, a well-made jib can be reefed quite a bit and still perform adequately.

As for the Tides Track: If on a budget, I'd put that one lower on the list. But now that I have it, I really love it. That, coupled with the mainsail stack pack (which was also a significant expense), makes dropping the main something I now enjoy!

Also in terms of budget priority, some mentioned an autopilot. The original post only asked about sails, but others brought up the desirability of an autopilot. For single-handed sailing I'd put that at the top of the list. For tiller pilots I'd recommend the Pelagic. (Brian Boschma, the fellow who designed and sells these, has an Olson 34 and sometimes posts to this list.) There is also the ubiquitous Raymarine ST2000+, but its very light-duty, cheap plastic construction led me to replace it with the Pelagic.

 

[Christian Williams]

As for contrary opinions, I don't like the idea of a jib downhaul line (if I understand it, such a line goes to the head).

To lower a hanked-on jib you have to go to the bow anyhow, no? To change or secure it. Why not haul the sail down hand over hand, if doesn;t want to descend on its own, as it usually does. Perhaps I miss something.

A long, free downhaul raised and lowered to masthead every time has in my mind a definite opportunity to foul, especially in heavy weather, or when somebody's not paying attention. A foul that keeps a sail from coming down is a hazard.

 

[Loren Beach]

Just to clarify a bit, when I added a "downhaul" to our prior 26 footer, this was to ameliorate the problem of the jib refusing to come down past halfway on a windy day. This happened us several times, with the wind blowing the jib back up the head stay even after I pulled it down. My downhaul was a 3/16" line, secured/clipped to about the 2nd hank from the top. It was led down thru several of the snaps and finally to a little swivel block at the bottom. Then led aft down the stanchion bases to a jam cleat by the combing.

 

[Alan Gomes]

As for contrary opinions, I don't like the idea of a jib downhaul line (if I understand it, such a line goes to the head).

To lower a hanked-on jib you have to go to the bow anyhow, no? To change or secure it. Why not haul the sail down hand over hand, if doesn;t want to descend on its own, as it usually does. Perhaps I miss something.

A long, free downhaul raised and lowered to masthead every time has in my mind a definite opportunity to foul, especially in heavy weather, or when somebody's not paying attention. A foul that keeps a sail from coming down is a hazard.

Just to clarify a bit, when I added a "downhaul" to our prior 26 footer, this was to ameliorate the problem of the jib refusing to come down past halfway on a windy day. This happened us several times, with the wind blowing the jib back up the head stay even after I pulled it down. My downhaul was a 3/16" line, secured/clipped to about the 2nd hank from the top. It was led down thru several of the snaps and finally to a little swivel block at the bottom. Then led aft down the stanchion bases to a jam cleat by the combing.

Right. My experience was the same as Loren's here. The downhaul made it possible to bring the sail down quickly and with authority. And cleating off the line kept the sail mostly in place while I made my way up to the bow to lash the foot of the sail to the pulpit. While it's true that the downhaul does not obviate the need to go forward, the difference is that one is not wrestling with the sail and trying to yank it down at the bow on a pitching deck. The downhaul would have the sail already securely held down by the time you'd be up forward. At that point, I believe lashing the foot to the aft end of the pulpit is an easier proposition.

While fouling is a valid concern, in practical use I don't recall ever finding that to be an issue.

Regardless, give me a good furler any day!

 

[Christian Williams]

I'm sure it works. I spent my youth, long gone, kneeling on pitching foredecks airborne half the time hauling down and changing jibs. Sometimes you had to lie on the sail to smother a 150 overlap being replaced by a much smaller sail. A downhaul would have been just a complication.

It's a matter of perceived necessity, as with many of our options.

Roller furling saves all that and I love it. Not just for the furl, but for the subtraction of wet sailbags and stuffing and hauling them along the deck and frankly the awkwardness of working on foredecks in weather, which the pros make look easy from a distance but up close is pretty hairy and scary even for them.

 

[tpcorrigan]

Congrats on the E27 and whatever decisions you make it will be a great boat. I have run one since 2016 and have no reason to change (helps that my dock is 28 X 10). As stated above, a Selden or Harken roller furler is awesome. when its a little bouncy out there nothing beats a roller furler.

We also use a stack pack and my only suggestions on that is that you place the lazy jack line above the spreaders. Mine is just below and I should have put at least 5' higher on mast. great system though. I did my own design for the lazy jacks and only needed a couple of eyes, stainless rings and 2 small jam cleats. Enjoy the season. _/)

 

[G Kiba]

Alan and Loren have it correct. Down haul is just to bring the head sail down. I too have never had a problem with it, at least on my boat's final configuration. Done right, no one goes forward to drop the head sail. It's all done from the back of the boat. I have seen several furler issues and have had my own situations. I have seen forestays get kinked from a halyard wrap at the top of the forestay and someone winching on a furler line. Result there was demasting. I have seen spin halyards and tacks get caught up in the drum when rolling up or out. Sometimes convenience has a price.

 

[Alan Gomes]

I have seen forestays get kinked from a halyard wrap at the top of the forestay and someone winching on a furler line. Result there was demasting.

I'd attribute the haylard wrap to improper installation and winching on a furler line to operator error. Neither should ever occur in a properly installed and operated system.

 

[Nick J]

Furlers, lazy jacks, auto pilots, main sail tracks, and self tailing winches all make life easier and safer. Does it make financial sense...no. They never do, but if we weighed fiscal responsibility in our decision to acquire the boat, none of us would ever own a boat in the first place (yes, even the free ones). Once you accept the insanity of it all, spending the money on a new furler makes sense.

The 27 is small enough, the gear is somewhat reasonable. The biggest difficulty I had when replacing the sails on my 25+ was getting a local company to pick up the phone. I tried all the lofts. Doyle was the only one to actually answer a phone call or email. When they did, the quote was unreasonable. I ended up going with Precision Sails and had a good experience. A local loft would have been nice, but Precision does a good job with the business model they have set up. I'm pessimistically assuming my 25+ wasn't big enough for any of the local companies to want to take it on, but it could have just been bad luck.

It looks like you're in Everett, There's much more knowledgeable people around, but I'd be happy to lend a hand if you need.

 

[Christian Williams]

What's the budget?

Seems to me that for a '76 Ericson '27 first boat, money is a significant factor. If you're planning to keep it ten years, big relative investment makes sense. If the boat is a learning tool, or if money is tight, a set of hanked on mail order sails will work fine.

Furlers are expensive. Don't spend more that the sales value of the boat unless there's good reason.

Oh, and you might ask about sail raising and dousing issues in a separate message. It would fit into a new subforum we just instituted, here: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/forums/seamanship-boat-handling.50/

 

[bgary]

*Any gurus in the PNW region that would like to see what's doable and what wouldn't on my boat would be greatly appreciated as well*

I'm in Everett, too (South C-dock), and while I won't claim to be a guru, always happy to share what I do know.

@sialawaysailaway90 ...let me know if you want to meet up some evening and talk Ericsons!

Bruce

 

[sialawaysailaway90]

We

I'm in Everett, too (South C-dock), and while I won't claim to be a guru, always happy to share what I do know.

@sialawaysailaway90 ...let me know if you want to meet up some evening and talk Ericsons!

Bruce

Small world, we are on South C-dock too! That'd be awesome. My dad and I are heading down later today to sand and varnish/overall cleaning. My dad and I would love to. I don't necessarily need a guru but someone to help me since my dad is upgrading. If today doesn't work, name one that does

 

[sialawaysailaway90]

There are so many replies that I really appreciate and that have humbled me. I have so much to learn.

Thank you all for the advice. Here are a few pictures.

My dad loves your videos, Christian Williams.

 

[sialawaysailaway90]

What's the budget?

Seems to me that for a '76 Ericson '27 first boat, money is a significant factor. If you're planning to keep it ten years, big relative investment makes sense. If the boat is a learning tool, or if money is tight, a set of hanked on mail order sails will work fine.

Furlers are expensive. Don't spend more that the sales value of the boat unless there's good reason.

Oh, and you might ask about sail raising and dousing issues in a separate message. It would fit into a new subforum we just instituted, here: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/forums/seamanship-boat-handling.50/

Priority is the Furler and sails. As far as budget goes... it really depends on if I can spend less than 5-7k for sails, furler, and covers for them. that'd be pretty awesome but thats me an hour combined reading up on pricing and not knowing the right furler for me.

I wont be venturing outside of the puget sound. I really apologize for not coming correct. It's really clear that I have so much to learn and read.

I'm not getting sails, a Furler, and other things to sell it later on in life. I'm doing it for myself. If/when I upgrade, it'd be nice to have some extra pocket money for a new one.