New prop for E34

[N.A.]

My prop (Kiwiprop, 3-blade) broke a reverse roller, and wasn't shifting well to forward thrust. The boatyard says this can be repaired reasonably cheaply (boat is already hauled for other work), but suggests I might instead consider a new prop given what I say about how I want to use the boat.

They recommend (if getting a new one) a 3-blade bronze prop, either Gori or Maxprop. Someone else knowledgeable suggested Flexofold, but supposedly they do not have as good support availability in the US.

I would appreciate any opinions on:

- Should I just fix the Kiwiprop (a lot cheaper, but it's old, plastic, and has now failed once)

- If I change props, suggestions re: Gori / Maxprop / Flexofold (or something else)

- Fixed vs folding? (is fixed cheaper? I am told everyone does folding now)

- Anything else I should have in mind before talking to the prop people (yard has engine/gear ratio/shaft/etc -- I mean questions re: pitch, or who knows what. I am new to this and facing a $2.5k hit... figure I should ask here first

Many thanks (and Happy New Year)!



PS: details of boat/use model, if you want them:

- 1998 E34 with Yanmar 3GM30F

- 3-blade Kiwiprop is pretty old (at least 7 years, possibly (likely) a good bit older (boat is 1998))

- I sail / plan to sail a good bit in and off the approaches to the Golden Gate / SF Bay. This is a heavy ship-traffic/current/swell area at times, and also sometimes the wind drops out there and you end up motoring for a good few hours (like 5+) down to Half Moon Bay or up to Drake's Bay.

- I would like a prop with good thrust and reliable -- singlehand a good bit, not excited about problems.

- I do not race or care if I am competitive, but do enjoy that the boat sails pretty quickly (for its type/age). The Kiwiprop has not put me through the water at hullspeed -- been fine inside the bay, but not super fast. Upwind out of the marina (into 20+ kts) I can be creeping along at only 2-3 kts, which has made me wonder about it as a tool if I need it in bad conditions.

- A new prop is a lot of money for me; not super excited about the sudden new expense, but if I'm going to do it might as well do it earlier rather than later in my ownership of the boat.

 

[Dave G.]

Fixed props are definitely a lot less $$ and will outlast the boat barring some sort of physical damage. If you are not concerned with the extra .25 knots of boat speed well that probably makes the most sense. A good 3 blade folder will cost $2k or more, a fixed 3 blade will be a 1/3 of that. As far as sizing and pitch that's best left up to whoever you purchase the prop from as they will normally fix it if you are not happy with it.

 

[Dave G.]

Also FWIW, not sure I would be too comfortable with a plastic prop. ....

 

[Loren Beach]

After ten happy years with a two blade feathering prop, we decided that we could live with the trade off of a half to three quarters of a lost knot under sail, and gain a half knot under power with with a fixed three blade prop. We did get the narrower blade "sailor" version. Long wind-less motoring trips then changed to a solid 7 kt thru water, from the previous 6.5.
If you do not mind the speed loss under sail, the 3-blade prop is an OK compromise, IMHO. Do buy the most efficient model tho. I bought one from Michigan, but others here seem to be really fond of the version from https://westbynorth.com/ , called the Campbell Sailor.

 

[Christian Williams]

My view is that a three-blade fixed prop is the natural choice for cruising sailors. Probably nowadays the Campbell sailor. For a cruiser, light air speed differences hardly matter--and light air speed increase of up to a knot is the justification for folding or feathering prop.

For me at least cruising has required a lot more motoring than the romance admits. You up anchor at dawn when there's no wind, fight currents, encounter wind on the nose all day, make timing promises to crew members, have dinner reservations, and so on. Dragging a bucket--which is what my old Michigan Sailor three-blade is when the breeze dies--is not an issue. I turn on the engine. I need to keep on the schedule.

And of course, a new Campbell Sailor is about $800 , as opposed to $3K+ for a Max Prop.

 

[Frank Langer]

But I still love my Varifold 2 blade folding prop! It does give me that extra knot, backs up fairly well for a sailboat, and hasn't given any problems in 20 years.
Frank

 

[N.A.]

Thanks, folks- this is super-helpful. Loren: thanks especially the info on the Campbell Sailor prop -- as sometimes happens, I discover I need something I know little about when the boat is already on the stand and time is short. Christian: the advice re: amount of motoring makes a lot of sense and is also much appreciated.

@Frank Langer -- My Kiwiprop (and a friend's) seem to have had issues with fouling over time. How much maintenance did you have to do on your Varifold? I do not want to have to haul the boat every year to do prop maintenance (boat stays in water year 'round unless something required); unsure if that desire pushes me immediately to a fixed prop.

PS: For those that may ever see this later, costs seem to be something like:

Maxprop 3-blade: $3250
Gori 3-blade: $4260 (holy moly...)
Campbell Sailor: (probably ~ $800 as Christian suggests)
Flexofold: (waiting on quote; supposedly in $2k range)

There is an interesting article (with data!):

Folding and feathering propeller test

Which is the best folding or feathering propeller for you? Emrhys Barrell compares 15 props in a test of speed, thrust, drag, stopping speed and propwalk

www.yachtingmonthly.com

more data:
https://wbn.tucdev.io/campbell-sailer/

And this thread:

Campbell-Sailer 3 blade prop for E34-2.

Thinking of installing a Campbell-Sailer 3 bladed fixed prop on my E34-2. Have read most all of the older posts here and and it seems that everyone was initially pleased with the prop but no real opinions after long time use. Would like to hear from anyone who has had one on their 34-2 for an...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Frank Langer]

Thanks, folks- this is super-helpful. Loren: thanks especially the info on the Campbell Sailor prop -- as sometimes happens, I discover I need something I know little about when the boat is already on the stand and time is short. Christian: the advice re: amount of motoring makes a lot of sense and is also much appreciated.

@Frank Langer -- My Kiwiprop (and a friend's) seem to have had issues with fouling over time. How much maintenance did you have to do on your Varifold? I do not want to have to haul the boat every year to do prop maintenance (boat stays in water year 'round unless something required); unsure if that desire pushes me immediately to a fixed prop.

PS: For those that may ever see this later, costs seem to be something like:

Maxprop 3-blade: $3250
Gori 3-blade: $4260 (holy moly...)
Campbell Sailor: (probably ~ $800 as Christian suggests)
Flexofold: (waiting on quote; supposedly in $2k range)

There is an interesting article (with data!):

Folding and feathering propeller test

Which is the best folding or feathering propeller for you? Emrhys Barrell compares 15 props in a test of speed, thrust, drag, stopping speed and propwalk

www.yachtingmonthly.com

more data:
https://wbn.tucdev.io/campbell-sailer/

And this thread:

Campbell-Sailer 3 blade prop for E34-2.

Thinking of installing a Campbell-Sailer 3 bladed fixed prop on my E34-2. Have read most all of the older posts here and and it seems that everyone was initially pleased with the prop but no real opinions after long time use. Would like to hear from anyone who has had one on their 34-2 for an...

ericsonyachts.org

Hi,
In answer to your question about my Varifold bronze 2 blade folding propeller, I also keep the boat in the water and sail year round, so it only sits stagnant when I am away travelling for a few weeks at a time, then I'll run the engine again on my return. From June to October I swim regularly, so once a week I'll take a small brush and in a few minutes brush any algae (rare) off the blades and the gears, and "work" the blades a few times to ensure they move freely (being geared they move together, the old ones sometimes had one blade move without the other, but geared prevents that).
I haul every two years, and at that time I'll do a light sand of the blades with 400 grit paper and briefly brush the gears with a brass wire brush, and then oil the blades where they connect to the gears. At that point the prop looks shiny gold, like new, and will open and close with a single finger nudge. Once in 16 years I undid two set screws to remove the pins holding the blades, greased each pin and reassembled it in about 10 minutes total, to restore the normal free movement.
In summary, maintenance is easy, and I love the look and speed of this propeller.
Frank

 

[Pete the Cat]

I think this was covered before, but I have an externally adjustable pitch Autostream 3 blade feathering prop on my Tartan I have cruised extensively in North and Central America for the last 20 years. As Christian suggests, when doing longer range cruising the heft of a three blade prop is warranted because cruising sometimes means motoring distances and you need the effficiency. The Autostream costs a bit less than the MaxProp and is Stainless (we gave up making bronze shafts long ago--I am thinking bronze is much easier to bend for pitch changes, but SS is stronger). If you have to pull the boat to repitch a fixed prop even once, it would seem to be false economy not to go with an externally adjustable prop of some kind. I can adjust the Autostream pitch in a free dive. I think getting the pitch just right for your diesel's longevity and that extra half knot of sailing is a good investment for distance cruisers (Christian, you should try one), but each to his own. I like the idea of the sure footed ness of a three blade prop for cruising but do not like the idea of dragging around the blades when sailing. Having said that, I have the standard fixed two blade that came with my Ericson 32-200 and I commend the folks at the Ericson factory for getting the pitch exactly right and it is perfectly adequate for the SF Bay and coastal sailing I do with that boat--my guess is that a feathering prop would not increase the sailing speed much at all in the way I use it. And I am not planning passages with that boat. So it all depends.