New owner seeking engine advice
- Thread starter BradHFL
- Start date
Yanmars are great engines. The only draw back is parts are bita to get and are expensive
I am not planning on repowering if I was I would look at Beta's also. They have a universal block and are supposed to be designed in a way that are ez to service with the location of the oil filters, water pumps etc
I am not planning on repowering if I was I would look at Beta's also. They have a universal block and are supposed to be designed in a way that are ez to service with the location of the oil filters, water pumps etc
I would like to run the boat as a 6 pack and do some charters in my spare time. I need to make sure that she has adequate power and is as reliable as can be. Our pass here frequently runs at around 5-6 kts and higher after heavy rains. I believe I'll need some power to overcome that current.
Also, the boat was originally set up with a diesel motor.
Also, the boat was originally set up with a diesel motor.
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supersailor
Contributing Partner
An outboard would not be good for charters. Too many opportunities for disaster with unfamiliar skippers. I have a Volvo D-13 Saildrive in the San Juan 26. Wonderful engine. It is quiet and has almost no vibration. It has driven the boat to 7.2kn at full throttle and the boat will cruise at 6.5kn which is what my E-34 will do. At 5.5kn, it doesn't seem to use fuel. The disadvantage is cost. The saildrives are ridiculously expensive. They just work exceptionally well. Any inboard diesel from 13 to 16hp will work well.
If you'll be on board all charters as captain, I vote for an outboard.
Installing an inboard engine is ... expensive. And they come "free" with many other 27s.
Wanna get at least some of your money back when selling time comes.
Installing an inboard engine is ... expensive. And they come "free" with many other 27s.
Wanna get at least some of your money back when selling time comes.
It's already set up for a direct drive diesel. I'm not that worried about cost or difficulty of putting one in. I'm more seeking info about performance with a 12 or 15hp motor and, from anyone who has specifically put a yanmar sb12 or 2gm in an E27, what the tolerances are in the engine compartment.
I seasonally encounter a few places where it takes every pony the A4 can supply to move against the current. I wonder if it would even be possible to approach the Columbia River dams with a small diesel or outboard. Then again, I'm not sure exactly how many HP the A4 is really delivering at the prop.
Good question about just how much useable HP the A4 can actually deliver to the small diameter prop on a 27.
For one data point, I have a friend that repowered his E-27, from an A4 to a single cylinder Yanmar. I recall it being about a 9 hp. He later said that, as satisfying as the conversion was, he sometimes wished he'd sprung for a twin.
My guess is that 12 to 14 hp would be ideal.
One trivia note about the Yanmar YSM12 (and other similar Yanmar's with slightly differing designations) is that this particular 12 HP engine has a single horizontal cylinder and was famous for fitting into tight spaces designed for the older flathead A4 block. OTOH it is nowadays an old engine with less parts still available each year.
I would suggest a more modern twin, like a Betamarine... but within your budget you gotta do the best you can.
Regards,
Loren
For one data point, I have a friend that repowered his E-27, from an A4 to a single cylinder Yanmar. I recall it being about a 9 hp. He later said that, as satisfying as the conversion was, he sometimes wished he'd sprung for a twin.
My guess is that 12 to 14 hp would be ideal.
One trivia note about the Yanmar YSM12 (and other similar Yanmar's with slightly differing designations) is that this particular 12 HP engine has a single horizontal cylinder and was famous for fitting into tight spaces designed for the older flathead A4 block. OTOH it is nowadays an old engine with less parts still available each year.
I would suggest a more modern twin, like a Betamarine... but within your budget you gotta do the best you can.
Regards,
Loren
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Another issue with A4s (further off topic) is that those designated for the Canadian market had an insert sleeve in the intake manifold to deliberately reduce horsepower. (To 18?) Some weird regulation would have kicked in for boats with a stock A4. I gather that many of those engines have had the insert removed over the years, but AFAIK, the only way to tell for sure is to take the carburetor off and look. Mine is one of those engines, but I haven't been bored or concerned enough to take it apart, just for that. The speed/RPM curve I plotted when I got my new prop, with a fresh bottom, looked approximately as expected.
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I restored the Atomic 4 to my prior E-27. Someone had pulled the A4 and put an outboard on her. For me, putting the A4 back in was the best thing and fantastic. Plus all the perks of an inboard, like the prop doesn't pull out of the water when it starts kicking up, I installed an Indigo prop. Just fantastic. That combination would punch through anything on the Chesapeake, and think nasty 4 foot chop here. The classic Indigo has been upgraded now to the Radial Winglet. Read more here, and no affiliation in any way other than being a prior very happy customer:
http://www.atomic4.com/propeller.html
So while some might think it odd in today's world, do consider an A4 as a great inexpensive and available power plant for your refit. I'm sure you can find a good ready to drop in A4 for $1000 or less with a little tree shaking. They often can be near giveaways, and Moyer Marine has everything needed to keep them going. Maybe Loren's friend still has his?.....
If you go diesel, I would get up to the 15hp range. I sailed on a friend's E27 with a Yanmar 1GM, and it would get the job done, but really not a lot of guts there for pushing against any wave action or making good time. I could cruise all day at 6+ comfortably in most conditions with my A4. My friend's E-27 really couldn't get much beyond 5.5 on flat water. May not sound like much, until you've got distance/storm/etc. on hand. I think if you get up into the 2GM range, you'd be fine. Price will be up, but everyone likes a diesel.... And for reference, I love the 3GM30F I have in Emerald.
Mort Fligelman
Member III
Engine Choices
I had a Yanmar 2QM15 in a Seidelman 299 (30 Feet) for 26 years.....never a problem and it would go through all of the steep chop Lake Michigan could throw at it.
If it will fit, and you can find a good used one, or the next generation new, I am sure not cheap, but one great engine.
I had a Yanmar 2QM15 in a Seidelman 299 (30 Feet) for 26 years.....never a problem and it would go through all of the steep chop Lake Michigan could throw at it.
If it will fit, and you can find a good used one, or the next generation new, I am sure not cheap, but one great engine.
steven
Sustaining Member
I'm replacing my A4 this winter. Runs smooth when it runs. Good compression on all the cylinders. New carb and a few other things.
Send me a message through this Forum if you (or anyone out there) want to discuss buying it.
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A few years ago I did some measurements and math on RPM , torque, and 'bollard pull'. Estimate around 8HP at the prop.
Never had a problem of too little power, and makes hull speed (at the beginning of the season before the barnacles get to the prop - a clean prop is maybe more important than a few extra HP unless you re-prop).
--Steve
Send me a message through this Forum if you (or anyone out there) want to discuss buying it.
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A few years ago I did some measurements and math on RPM , torque, and 'bollard pull'. Estimate around 8HP at the prop.
Never had a problem of too little power, and makes hull speed (at the beginning of the season before the barnacles get to the prop - a clean prop is maybe more important than a few extra HP unless you re-prop).
--Steve
outdoorsman37
New Member
Sb12
If you don't mind me asking, are you aware of an SB12 for sale? I am looking for one or parts. They are hard to find. The raw water cooling at this point has corroded many heads, blocks, manifolds, elbows, etc. If it has been taken care of religiously great otherwise, if you could get a fresh water cooled small diesel that would be my recommendation. you also have to consider redoing your mounts. newer diesels are smaller and lighter relatively. you want one that you will be able to get parts for the next five-ten years after all the work installing.
If you don't mind me asking, are you aware of an SB12 for sale? I am looking for one or parts. They are hard to find. The raw water cooling at this point has corroded many heads, blocks, manifolds, elbows, etc. If it has been taken care of religiously great otherwise, if you could get a fresh water cooled small diesel that would be my recommendation. you also have to consider redoing your mounts. newer diesels are smaller and lighter relatively. you want one that you will be able to get parts for the next five-ten years after all the work installing.