Marina ice coverage

[reginaldobaker]

Am from the SF bay but relocated to western wa about 8 years ago - have never seen ice coverage at a saltwater marina before. Seems to be about 3/4” sheets throughout most of the southern docks and fairways in Des Moines.

definitely has me rethinking cold weather diesel storage. Typically run a small dry-air passive heater during the winters and hoping that’ll be enough during this cold snap…

cheers and stay safe

 

[Dave G.]

If it's only a night here and there a small space heater may work ok. I would guess it's pretty cold if there is 3/4" ice though. Also need to think about fresh water and waste systems if so equipped as those 3/4" hoses will freeze pretty quick.

 

[Marlin Prowell]

Here in Bellingham, Whatcom Country, we have single digit temperatures and record low temps. We’ve had ice in the marina other times, but not this time because the high winds. If the wind stops it may freeze pretty solid. I’ve use a Caframo Dehumidifier but I also have a TrueNorth heater with the thermostat set to just above freezing. I removed the engine compartment cover and keep the head door open so air circulates everywhere. I emptied the fresh water tanks and the hot water heater. This has always been sufficient in past years when keeping the boat in the water, and the boat is doing fine right now. A balmy 33 degrees in the cabin when I checked yesterday and 41 degrees today.

 

[Loren Beach]

Marlin, thanks much for the TrueNorth heater link. Good price, so I ordered one.
Temp. is about 14 (F) here now, and no relief expected until late Tuesday. Boat engine is winterized but I worry some.
Our river has frozen over inside the marina's back a couple decades ago, but not recently, BTW.

 

[bsangs]

Here in Bellingham, Whatcom Country, we have single digit temperatures and record low temps. We’ve had ice in the marina other times, but not this time because the high winds. If the wind stops it may freeze pretty solid. I’ve use a Caframo Dehumidifier but I also have a TrueNorth heater with the thermostat set to just above freezing. I removed the engine compartment cover and keep the head door open so air circulates everywhere. I emptied the fresh water tanks and the hot water heater. This has always been sufficient in past years when keeping the boat in the water, and the boat is doing fine right now. A balmy 33 degrees in the cabin when I checked yesterday and 41 degrees today.

@Marlin Prowell - How exactly do you have the True North heater set up? I have one and set it to what I thought was the antifreeze setting, but it doesn't seem to click on automatically. I must be doing something wrong. Thanks for the link to the dehumidifier too.

 

[Loren Beach]

Probably not 'new news' to anyone here, but the ad for the "dehumidifier" is deceiving. I have friends with actual dehumidifiers on their boats -- these remove moisture from the air into a tank/container.
The product in the ad is just a low temp heater. While it's true that warmer air will hold more moisture, the moisture is still present. And when the slightly-warmed air meets the inside of the hull or a port, that moisture will condense out just like usual.

Trivia: the decades-old "Golden Rod" tube heater is still sold on Amazon for $29.99. Back in my active duty days some guys would put one in their locker on shore base to discourage mold from growing on shoes.... not a very ship shape sight, be assured. Same principal, tho. Keep the warmed H2O molecules in a vapor phase....

 

[bsangs]

Probably not 'new news' to anyone here, but the ad for the "dehumidifier" is deceiving. I have friends with actual dehumidifiers on their boats -- these remove moisture from the air into a tank/container.
The product in the ad is just a low temp heater. While it's true that warmer air will hold more moisture, the moisture is still present. And when the slightly-warmed air meets the inside of the hull or a port, that moisture will condense out just like usual.

Trivia: the decades-old "Golden Rod" tube heater is still sold on Amazon for $29.99. Back in my active duty days some guys would put one in their locker on shore base to discourage mold from growing on shoes.... not a very ship shape sight, be assured. Same principal, tho. Keep the warmed H2O molecules in a vapor phase....

I have a small tank dehumidifier that works great in the warm months, but is useless in the cold, as the little moisture it removes eventually freezes in the coils.

 

[Loren Beach]

I have a small tank dehumidifier that works great in the warm months, but is useless in the cold, as the little moisture it removes eventually freezes in the coils.

Looks like you need both a way to dehumidify and also a way to keep the the air above freezing.
BTW, at home we have now slowly warmed up all the way to 16 (F). Hoping to be above freezing on Wednesday. This is extreme for our area. I just hope our boat does not experience any split hoses above the closed thru hulls.
In our fair city, really "cold" weather is usually defined as "all the way down to 20".....

 

[southofvictor]

What are you guys’ thoughts on keeping a 120v heater running (or powered up with a thermostat - thanks for that LFS link Marlon) while the boat is unattended? I’m lucky to have a dockmate who turns mine on when its extremely cold, but I‘ve alway been afraid to leave one on with a thermostat setting because I’ve heard that way more boats are lost to fires than freezing temps.

 

[reginaldobaker]

What are you guys’ thoughts on keeping a 120v heater running (or powered up with a thermostat - thanks for that LFS link Marlon) while the boat is unattended? I’m lucky to have a dockmate who turns mine on when its extremely cold, but I‘ve alway been afraid to leave one on with a thermostat setting because I’ve heard that way more boats are lost to fires than freezing temps.

Thanks for bringing this up, spent the night on board just to run the space heater and keep things supervised. A thermostat setting seems really nice but am curious on thoughts or recommendations as well.
Would like to set it and forget it for maybe days at a time rather than weeks/months.

suppose the small dry air heater isn’t much different and functions the same as other 120v heaters but it’s the most I feel secure leaving unattended

 

[Christian Williams]

Regarding Goldenrods: My daughter had three closets that, in the humidity of her coastal house here, actually got wet. That is, sheen of condensation on the floor and walls, and clothes damp to the feel.

I installed a Goldenrod in each, 24" version, and the result is miraculous. The rods maintain only hand-warmer temps, but that's sufficient to heat the air in the space such that it can't hold so much water vapor.

 

[southofvictor]

Those sound like an old pair of ski boot driers I had - a couple of sticks joined to a 120v plug with a y fitting. They worked great! Added bonus - without a fan they didn’t blow boot stink out into the room!

 

[Loren Beach]

While the river surface did not freeze, the 40 to 50 mph winds for several days with temps in the low teens did pile up a lot of ice on the upstream headwalk at the club. A friend just visited and sent these to me.
He reported that walking was treacherous on the piled up ice. This happens every few years and usually requires wearing crampons to walk on that dock. If you look at the ariel view on Maps, it looks quite placid in the summer!
My slip is the last one before the resident floating home at the end of walk five -- very protected from ice storms. A few winters we have had about a foot of snow on the boat and docks, tho.

 

[Marlin Prowell]

I like the True North heater because it cannot tip over, regardless of how much the boat is knocked around in a gale. I also keep all countertops and seat cushions cleared of items that might fall, so nothing is going to fall on top of the heater. Plus the electrical panel circuit will trip and the dock shore power circuit breaker will trip if there is too much current draw on the AC circuit. That seems safe enough for me.

I didn't mention this earlier, but I also keep all access doors to the thru hulls open, so all these spaces should be kept above freezing by the heater.

Attached is the description from the manual for setting the heater to "Antifreeze mode". It describes the setting better than I can. I set the fan speed to 3 or 4. The heater does not run continuously. It might turn on briefly every five minutes or so when the thermostat is set to antifreeze mode and the boat is cold enough. To test the heater, you can turn the thermostat dial all the way up to the "+" setting and then the heater will start and stay on.

Yes, the Stop-Dry dehumidifier isn't a dehumidifier. I had a real dehumidifier previously, but had the same problem as @bsangs. It would freeze up in the winter, so it was pretty useless.

Once the weather warms up, the True North heater stops running. I also have the Stor-Dry because my understanding is that circulating the air in the boat cabin is an effective way to prevent mold and mildew. I will say that I am fanatical about chasing and fixing leaks. And, the bilge stays dry all winter long. Yes, I'm that guy. The combination of low humidity (no bilge water) and gently circulating air have kept our Ericson mold and mildew free every winter. We've had other leaky boats that required serious cleaning in the spring, so we are motivated to prevent this on the Ericson.

 

[bgary]

Ugh, just got back from checking on Makana. I usually leave a heater on "freeze-guard" setting (comes on at 45F) and a fan to make sure air moves around.

Neither was running. Apparently the breaker popped overnight.

Inside temp was 28F.

Nothing important appeared to be frozen (happily, the water temp at thru-hull level usually remains at least 50F, even if there is surface ice in the marina, so below-the-waterline stuff never seems to get below freezing)... but there are a few inside things gave me pause. The fresh-water foot-pump under the galley sink appears to be frozen, for example.

(could be worse, one of the powerboats in a covered dock in my marina apparently caught fire over night. initial reports were that the source was a refrigeration unit that was not rated for outdoor use...? news said that two sheds and the boats within were total losses.)

I reset the breaker, turned the heater up to 65F and hung out long enough to make sure it remained running (and to watch the inside temp rise over 32). The engine cover is already off to allow air to circulate, and I generally leave locker-doors ajar for the same reason.

Will go back in a couple of hours to check again. Supposed to be over 30F today, 34F tomorrow but still well below freezing at night through Thursday, so will continue to keep an eye on things.

 

[Nick J]

Sounds like I was down there the same time Bruce. We were lucky to have the heater stay on and the cabin was above 40. Hopefully you come back to a thawed boat this afternoon. Here's what S dock looks like:

 

[bgary]

Hopefully you come back to a thawed boat this afternoon.

Thanks, so far so good. Just got back, I wanted to get temp up in a hurry so I left the heater set on 65F for the day, and temp inside was 55F, so, happy about that. Nothing appears to be frozen or damaged. Fresh-water foot pumps working again, which is a good sign.

I did notice some drips below the sea-strainer under the galley sink. Not sure if the fasteners got loose (stainless hex-heads in a bronze fitting, what could possibly go wrong) or if the gasket somehow cracked. Or something. It's not an exigent circumstance, the strainer itself is well above the waterline, I'll take a closer look on the next trip.

One thing I did note is that the cockpit "gusher" pump can't be pumped. My guess is residual water in the diaphragm/chamber is frozen. Can't think of a way to get heat back there, but the hoses are in heated space, the thru-hulls are closed, not sure what else to do other than give it a good look once temps are up a bit.

I left the heater at 65, I'll go back in the morning and reassess whether or not to put it back on the freeze-guard setting or wait a few days.

B

 

[Puget sailor]

My Ericson 32-3 fresh water pump froze over night in the engine room. Boat is in Port Madison on Bainbridge Island (Puget Sound) I thawed it by running the engine to warm things up today. It's going again, but has a leak, so plastic housing must have cracked. Never thought it would get cold enough to freeze with all that bilge area radiating water temps, but I forgot to account for the cowl vents on the transom, which apparently let the 15 degree air blowing at 15 knots come right on in.

I do keep a wyze webcam on board, and put a thermometer in it's line of site. This morning the cabin was at 27 degrees. Normally my dehumidifier gives off just enough heat to keep things a bit warmer than ambient down there, but the air has been so dry, it's not calling for dehumidification so not giving off heat either.

My yacht club has limited shore power capacity, so I don't like to heat. But if doing so, the oil filled radiator heaters with thermostats seem to be about the safest. Lots of surface area and don't get too hot. The 1500 watt versions typically have two heating elements that can be switched in or out in addition to the thermostat. One at 900 watts an another at 600 watts. 600 alone should be plenty for frost protection, so I may consider that next time it gets this cold, which could be several years or later this month at this rate...

I did find a place online with new pump guts for the old Johnson P-15 fresh water pump, many years out of production. A new pump would be cheaper, but this pump seems to be a good shipmate, and I like that the pump area is separated from the motor by more than just a seal, so I think I'll order the parts and keep it going. Plus then I know the rest of the pluming connections will be plug and play.

 

[bigd14]

I’m screwed I think. I haven’t been able to get to the boat for awhile and certainly not when I needed to right before this extremely cold spell. I have a Caframo dehumidifier placed in the engine compartment which keeps it warm but not too warm and has worked great for years, and I do not winterize the engine. I may regret that now with lots of power outages and really cold temps.

When I am able to get to the boat are there specific areas should I look out for freeze damage? I’ll check the whole freshwater cooling system but are there some areas more susceptible than others? I emptied the drinking water tank and system so hopefully that’s ok.

 

[bigd14]

I’m screwed I think. I haven’t been able to get to the boat for awhile and certainly not when I needed to right before this extremely cold spell. I have a Caframo dehumidifier placed in the engine compartment which keeps it warm but not too warm and has worked great for years, and I do not winterize the engine. I may regret that now with lots of power outages and really cold temps.
When I am able to get to the boat are there specific areas should I look out for freeze damage? I’ll check the whole freshwater cooling system but are there some areas more susceptible than others? I emptied the drinking water tank and system so hopefully that’s ok.