Lubricating Marelon valves
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Chris A.
Member III
This is from the manufacturer
MAINTENANCE:
FORESPAR® MARELON® Thru-hull/seacocks are corrosion free and provide great peace of mind in that regard. They are relatively maintenance free. Generally, lubrication is not required. What is required is to open and close them on a regular basis (4 times a year minimum). The frequency this is required is determined by two (2) things, whether the valves are routinely kept open or closed, and the rate of sea growth (weed and barnacles) in your area. If the rate of fouling is high and the valves are not actuated regularly, this build up of growth can cause any valve to turn hard or not at all. If the valve becomes stiff due to lack of use and sea growth build-up, it must be cleaned. The restriction of flow into the valve may cause harm to the machinery it serves and the valve may seize if not maintained. DO NOT DISASSEMBLE VALVE OR LOOSEN BOLTS EXCEPT IN EXTREME EMERGENCIES. All valves are factory pressure tested before shipping. Any adjustments to the bolts will void this testing and may void warranties.
Interestingly, this is also from the manufacturer
Tech Tip
Marelon® - Marine Grade Plumbing Systems Valve Lubrication
As a follow up to previous Tech Tips; it is important to know that while Marelon® fixings are corrosion resistant, they do require twice yearly lubrication maintenance. These valves should be activated on a regular schedule. The handle should be moved throughout the open/close path every thirty days. Leaving a valve open or closed without moving the handle can cause freeze-up. This is true of any valve, including bronze. The law of nature is "use it or loose it".
To lubricate ball valves and seacocks while the boat is in the water you must:
Close valve.
Remove hose from tailpipe.
Remove remaining water from valve/tailpipe.
Swab waterproof grease (water pump grease, winch grease) or LanoCote™, generously, on ball.
Reattach hose, checking for fatigue and rusted hose clamps.
Activate valve a few times. When boat is hauled, you can perform steps 4-6 from outside the hull to lubricate opposite side of ball and seals.
Hope this (conflicting) information helps!
MAINTENANCE:
FORESPAR® MARELON® Thru-hull/seacocks are corrosion free and provide great peace of mind in that regard. They are relatively maintenance free. Generally, lubrication is not required. What is required is to open and close them on a regular basis (4 times a year minimum). The frequency this is required is determined by two (2) things, whether the valves are routinely kept open or closed, and the rate of sea growth (weed and barnacles) in your area. If the rate of fouling is high and the valves are not actuated regularly, this build up of growth can cause any valve to turn hard or not at all. If the valve becomes stiff due to lack of use and sea growth build-up, it must be cleaned. The restriction of flow into the valve may cause harm to the machinery it serves and the valve may seize if not maintained. DO NOT DISASSEMBLE VALVE OR LOOSEN BOLTS EXCEPT IN EXTREME EMERGENCIES. All valves are factory pressure tested before shipping. Any adjustments to the bolts will void this testing and may void warranties.
Interestingly, this is also from the manufacturer
Tech Tip
Marelon® - Marine Grade Plumbing Systems Valve Lubrication
As a follow up to previous Tech Tips; it is important to know that while Marelon® fixings are corrosion resistant, they do require twice yearly lubrication maintenance. These valves should be activated on a regular schedule. The handle should be moved throughout the open/close path every thirty days. Leaving a valve open or closed without moving the handle can cause freeze-up. This is true of any valve, including bronze. The law of nature is "use it or loose it".
To lubricate ball valves and seacocks while the boat is in the water you must:
Close valve.
Remove hose from tailpipe.
Remove remaining water from valve/tailpipe.
Swab waterproof grease (water pump grease, winch grease) or LanoCote™, generously, on ball.
Reattach hose, checking for fatigue and rusted hose clamps.
Activate valve a few times. When boat is hauled, you can perform steps 4-6 from outside the hull to lubricate opposite side of ball and seals.
Hope this (conflicting) information helps!
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treilley
Sustaining Partner
Hey Chris. That's what I just did to mine. Used lanocote. I close all my seacocks when leaving the boat. After replacing a broken Marelon valve this year, I have decided to go all bronze next year. I just don't like how flimsy some of the thru-hulls feel.
My mast in the staging area today at Brewers so I expect it to be in by Friday. We plan to spend the 3 day weekend sailing. Not sure where we will go yet but somewhere we can relax.
My mast in the staging area today at Brewers so I expect it to be in by Friday. We plan to spend the 3 day weekend sailing. Not sure where we will go yet but somewhere we can relax.
Gary Peterson
Marine Guy
This last winter I changed all 6 of my below waterline Marelon thru-hulls and seacocks with Bronze. Last summer I had a Marelon handle and part of the square drive break off in my Head's sink drain when I went to open it. "That did it for me". I can sleep better now and the bronze ones are easily opened and shut.
mherrcat
Contributing Partner
Thanks. I'm trying to get to all the valves and exercise them regularly so they don't freeze up. I have found one, for the cockpit drain, that I can't turn. It is in an awkward position so I can't get very good leverage on it with my hand.
Any suggestions on how I might try to free it up without possibly breaking the handle off or worse?
Any suggestions on how I might try to free it up without possibly breaking the handle off or worse?
The return of the Bronze Age
To echo several great threads about valves and thruhulls on this site, Ericson was using RC Marine "marlon" VALVES screwed onto thruhulls and/or elbows in the 80's. These products were, by that time, distributed in this country by Forespar, after being previously distributed here by RC Marine directly.
Screwing a valve onto a threaded thruhull was and is considered a weak method of attaching it. This is so no matter what material the parts are composed of... whether reinforced nylon ("marlon") or bronze.
Ericson Yachts could have installed the RC Marine seacock version with three bolt/screw base attachment to the backer or hull, but for some reason chose not to do so. I do not see where they saved any time or inventory, but then I never build boats for a living, either... :nerd:
Using the flange-base version would have solved the first concern of whether the screw-on-valve device was a real seacock, and it was not.
The second problem of the early RC Marine composite was that the ball was mildly hydroscopic and would... slightly swell... and become hard to rotate. The good news is that the valve body is strong and that the weak point then moved to the valve shaft. Bad news is that you still have to replace the valve, after the handle would break off.
Regular lubrication helps a lot, and if you are real careful, it is quite possible to take the valve off the boat and with a large wrench and gentle force back off the nut on either end and veeerrryyyy slightly increase the clearance around the ball by a gnat's eyelash.
In the real world, whether you have a 20-30 year old gate valve, a taper-plug metal valve, or an early marlon valve, it is time to upgrade. Like all the hoses on your boat and most of the wiring, etc, etc, and more etc.... specs and engineering changes and (sometimes!) advances.
There are many pictures in other seacock and thru hull threads of this fine site of the new-design Forespar and the Groco (and equivalent bronze products) ball-valve flanged seacocks. Any choice you make has real pluses and minuses.
The only part of threads like this that is a tad disturbing is the wholesale dissing of one old product over another. After all, the whole darned boat is made out of reinforced composite, i.e. "plastic." A new thread about replacing the entire hull with bronze would certainly sharpen the focus, by the way.
Cheers,
Loren
To echo several great threads about valves and thruhulls on this site, Ericson was using RC Marine "marlon" VALVES screwed onto thruhulls and/or elbows in the 80's. These products were, by that time, distributed in this country by Forespar, after being previously distributed here by RC Marine directly.
Screwing a valve onto a threaded thruhull was and is considered a weak method of attaching it. This is so no matter what material the parts are composed of... whether reinforced nylon ("marlon") or bronze.
Ericson Yachts could have installed the RC Marine seacock version with three bolt/screw base attachment to the backer or hull, but for some reason chose not to do so. I do not see where they saved any time or inventory, but then I never build boats for a living, either... :nerd:
Using the flange-base version would have solved the first concern of whether the screw-on-valve device was a real seacock, and it was not.
The second problem of the early RC Marine composite was that the ball was mildly hydroscopic and would... slightly swell... and become hard to rotate. The good news is that the valve body is strong and that the weak point then moved to the valve shaft. Bad news is that you still have to replace the valve, after the handle would break off.
Regular lubrication helps a lot, and if you are real careful, it is quite possible to take the valve off the boat and with a large wrench and gentle force back off the nut on either end and veeerrryyyy slightly increase the clearance around the ball by a gnat's eyelash.
In the real world, whether you have a 20-30 year old gate valve, a taper-plug metal valve, or an early marlon valve, it is time to upgrade. Like all the hoses on your boat and most of the wiring, etc, etc, and more etc.... specs and engineering changes and (sometimes!) advances.
There are many pictures in other seacock and thru hull threads of this fine site of the new-design Forespar and the Groco (and equivalent bronze products) ball-valve flanged seacocks. Any choice you make has real pluses and minuses.
The only part of threads like this that is a tad disturbing is the wholesale dissing of one old product over another. After all, the whole darned boat is made out of reinforced composite, i.e. "plastic." A new thread about replacing the entire hull with bronze would certainly sharpen the focus, by the way.
Cheers,
Loren
Maine Sail
Member III
The only part of threads like this that is a tad disturbing is the wholesale dissing of one old product over another. After all, the whole darned boat is made out of reinforced composite, i.e. "plastic." A new thread about replacing the entire hull with bronze would certainly sharpen the focus, by the way.
Cheers,
Loren
Loren,
I don't feel like folks are wholesale dissing Marelon they are merely expressing concerns over the many broken of failed valves and also the poor installation methodology chosen by Ericson. I've read about PVC elbows joined to Marelon valves then to nylon thru-hulls? Either way you slice it it makes Bronze look better and seems to offer more comfort to owners right or wrong.
Bronze has it's own pitfall and that is corrosion. However being that I do check in with about 6-7 forums on a regular basis, and have been doing so since the late 90's, I see very few reports of failed bronze seacocks when compared to Marelon.
Sure the Marelon never corrodes but they do break and have had many, many iterations and changes over the years to address the problems I feel they have "wholesale" swept under the rug and ignored.
I've personally had a number of Marelon valves fail and some were less than a year old. When I called the manufacturer they pretended like they had never heard of such and thing and offered no support even when I asked politely to send my valve back, with receipt, for an inspection, because this was "so rare", they would not even bite.
Can you tell us how you got your handles to go back on?
Here's what mine look like when they break..
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Ouch. Nice jab about "reattaching a handle", but the picture of an "RC Marine" label leads me to believe that the valve was built in the 80's, pre Forespar.
To be fair to yours and other owners' predicament, though, Forespar did not appear to change the engineering or material for quite a while after they acquired the line. I also have no idea when they printed new labels, either.
As to whether Forespar was hiding their Marelon hydroscopic material problems, I do not know since I have never asked them about it. I do remember that back in the early 80's I once had one of their twist-lock whisker poles fail and they replaced it for free. Perhaps that was because it was one of their (at that time) mainstream traditional products.
They did, however, make significant changes in the 90's when they redesigned the seacocks completely. The "OEM style" is what we changed to when we converted our boat from the factory valve-on-a-threaded-thruhull scheme. And, for sure, some of our handles were very hard to turn. And, in the the head, Ericson had screwed the valve onto an elbow fitting.
In their current catalog, the style that we changed over to is mentioned on this and a following page.
http://www.forespar.com/onlineCatalog/2008/Marelon/2008MarelonCatalog.pdf
I also note that I have been misspelling "Marelon"...
(sigh)
I also agree that electrolysis of metal thruhulls is rare, at least in the extreme form. Just a few years ago, though, the Seattle magazine "48 North" carried the story of a near sinking when a sailboat owner found that his prop was reduced to a stub and the mushy remains of his bronze skin fittings were all oozing sea water... in just a few days in a severe stray current dock situation. His boat was lifted out before flooding but it was a very close call.
Everyone picks their compromises based on their study/research and their perceived needs, is about all it boils down to, IMHO.
Regards,
Loren
ps: most of us only ask a penny for our advice, and never collect a cent!
Maine Sail
Member III
Loren..
Not a jab just a real question as every one I broke there was no way to get them back on.
Those valves were purchased in 1996 at Coastal marine in Brunswick, ME and I can't imagine the inventory turned that slow unless they purchased an old "close out" lot. As far as I know Forspar bought out RC marine in the mid to late 80's but I don't know when they changed the sticker..?
I know Forespar changed the valve handle design. I have seen some of the new ones and there are certainly less reports of broken ones than with the older style. I personally think the set screw was tapped to large, on older ones, leaving very little structural Marelon in the handle post.
Here's a quote from Forespar:
"The handles (more specifically, the ball-stem/handle connection) on Marelon® valves have, over 15 years, been modified and strengthened more than once. R.C. did it and Forespar® did them again. The valve/handle system on today’s valves are far stronger than those made a few years ago. They have been enlarged, reshaped and extended so they will withstand the torque people apply---even in the wrong direction. We know that many failures in the past were due to the handles being forced the wrong direction against the stop. (If the stops were eliminated it would compromise the certainty that the valve is not partially open or closed.) Use enough force and the handle would either break or be forced off the stem. Use enough force on a bronze valve and you bend the handle. Both outcomes make the valves inoperable."
Seems to me they are still blaming it on the end user..!
P.S. I know how to open a ball valve...!
Not a jab just a real question as every one I broke there was no way to get them back on.
Those valves were purchased in 1996 at Coastal marine in Brunswick, ME and I can't imagine the inventory turned that slow unless they purchased an old "close out" lot. As far as I know Forspar bought out RC marine in the mid to late 80's but I don't know when they changed the sticker..?
I know Forespar changed the valve handle design. I have seen some of the new ones and there are certainly less reports of broken ones than with the older style. I personally think the set screw was tapped to large, on older ones, leaving very little structural Marelon in the handle post.
Here's a quote from Forespar:
"The handles (more specifically, the ball-stem/handle connection) on Marelon® valves have, over 15 years, been modified and strengthened more than once. R.C. did it and Forespar® did them again. The valve/handle system on today’s valves are far stronger than those made a few years ago. They have been enlarged, reshaped and extended so they will withstand the torque people apply---even in the wrong direction. We know that many failures in the past were due to the handles being forced the wrong direction against the stop. (If the stops were eliminated it would compromise the certainty that the valve is not partially open or closed.) Use enough force and the handle would either break or be forced off the stem. Use enough force on a bronze valve and you bend the handle. Both outcomes make the valves inoperable."
Seems to me they are still blaming it on the end user..!
P.S. I know how to open a ball valve...!
FWIW, I tried to find the "OEM" style of Marelon seacock when I did mine over. The OEM is a much improved design and worthy of consideration. It would seem that the advantages of Marelon is nullified if the valve is not routinely cycled and maintained. If it does bind up you are likely going to break it.... Most of the seacocks in my E38 were plastic, they all functioned but were mounted on a mismatch of plastic and metal thru-hulls. It would seem, as in most things, the installation and maintenance is more important. RT