Loose Footed Main and Mid Boom Sheeting

stbdtack

Member III
Havent gotten a chance to get the new main out yet. BTW it overlaps the backstay by about 1-1.5 inches. Its supposed to be max PHRF....

I'll check the boom bend when its hard on the wind if I can get out this weekend.
Good luck with the dinghy sailing:egrin:

Whats anybody using for Cunningham?? Ive got 5:1. Would 6 or 7:1 get me more effective adjustment??
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Boom bend

I had been thinking that Ben would be the right guy to chime in on this since he sails the boat pretty hard and is in SF Bay area, where the summer breeze rages frequently-and the amound of bend he is showing is certainly nothing to be concerned with at all. BTW-I'm sure you know this: With enough leech loading (I know, you are at the dock!) to loosen the luff, it is obvious you need more main halyard tension-right? This brings up another good idea-mark the halyard tension using a marker pen to put a line on the rope halyard tail, and find a position (the front edge of the stopper, or even with the traveler, etc.) for light, medium and heavy air-Do the same for the Genoa-it can help take some guess work out of the equation. You should never have so much sheet load that the luff beomes slack-but if this is to work, you have to know the right amount of harlyard for a given windspeed..

But I digress. Ted and Chris-good comments-if this is all you are seeing, it is better to think about other things! Ben, what did you mean by "loose or baggy" in terms of the previous foot attachment? For your vang-I might keep the 5:1 and just use a spectra doubler; dead end a piece of spectra (or similar) on the opposite side of the mast from the cunn. purchase. You can use a padeye on the mast, or part of the gooseneck fitting. Run it up and through the cunn ring, and secure the purchase to the bitter end of the doubler line. You have added another 2:1, which now gives 10:1-VERY powerful, and for a nice sail like this, it will be helpful in the big air days on the Bay. NICE main!!!! Say hello to Billy for me!

S
 
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ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Ben I was going to ask you the same question on your cunnigham. I was going to put together a 5:1 using a small triple with a cam cleat and a double w/becket. Run the a line from the triple down to the mast plate or vang attachment point. Then run a line with a hook from the double block to the cringle. Seths version sounds even better making 10:1. So far I have found the 8:1 cascaded outhaul to be perfect. I have been able to make adjustments under load with ease. Hell its almost as easy as on the Jet 14. Racing last night was fun, light air but fun. 3 bullets and a 4th... Big regatta this saturday though, hopefully we have some breeze.
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Not familiar with that event. What classes sail in it? BTW did you see my post on the PHRF measurement thread? What did you put down for these measurements?
 

stbdtack

Member III
For that last pic I had just pulled the main up by hand till the luff was straight. So lots of wrinkles when I wailed in on the sheet.

With the new main since it doesnt stretch much I always have a little luff sag when I get the main in hard. More halyard tension would be too much when the mainsheet is eased (Draft too far fwd) so I have been using the cunningham to pull the wrinkles out when they show up.

Is this the best way to trim or should I actually add more halyard tension at that point? When I see the rockstar boats hard on the wind they have a little luff wrinkle down low. Speed wrinkles, right Chris??

Seth, Loose or baggy foot attachment meant that I never saw much tension at the mid boom slugs so I figured there wasnt much loading on the boom at that point? Almost all of it was concentrated at the clew. I havent had the new sail out in any real wind so I'll will try to get a pic of the boom in some good wind.

Ted the cunningham set-up you are describing is a 6:1 I think? (I have to doodle it on a pad) I'm using a double and a double/becket to get the 5:1. Seths idea for the doubler is a brilliant easy addition.
Now I have to change the outhaul (damn). I dont even have the little rollers you have so 8:1 would definitely improve my outhaul power.
 

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Seth

Sustaining Partner
Cool

Ben, for this cunn. setup you could tie off some 3/16 or so spectra/kevlar line to the ring you are running the cunn line through. Then run it up through the webbing and back down through that ring, and just make a bowline in the end of it. The cunn purchase can attach to that bowline-like it now attaches to the rope running through the webing, so you have everything one one side as it us now, just that your purchase is pulling on the doubler line, not the sail. Voila!

As for the loose slides on the foot, I think what was happening is that they were binding, so that is why you were having all the load right at the clew. Ideally, they would slide freely in the boom track so the foot had equal load along the entire length. This will no longer be a problem:cool:

Regarding trim-this is a perfect technique-especially for a composite mainsail. What you DON'T want is (as you say) is to have so much halyard load than when you ease the sheet off for any reason you don't jam the draft up to the mast (btw-you expressed that VERY well!!) If with anything more than a hand tight halyard in light-med air you have the problem of the draft up against the mast, then yes, continue, and use the cunningham to fine tune.......On windy days you may need a little more. The only possible concern is that the main is at or near the band. If you had to keep the sail 6" low to keep things looking right, the sail may have a minor design problem, but if all this is happening as you say and the main is within an inch of the band, then don't change.

Yes, wrinkles are just fine if that is what it takes to keep the draft in the right place. Having the draft too far forward is MUCH slower than a few wrinkles!!

You are fine-just remember to use that cunningham to keep the draft right. If you want to remove wrinkles, just make sure that in doing so you don't move things too far fwd..

Have I repeated myself enough?

Seeya,
S
 
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ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Upgrades

Here are some shots from sailing last night in 5-8kts. The new vang is not yet installed nor is the Hydraulic BS but pics show the tang we welded in for the vang, the new halyard blocks, mainsheet purchase, loose foot with 8:1 outhaul, forstay sag, boom flex, and modified stern pulpit to accept the BS adjuster. More in the next post.
 

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ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
More shots. The first one has the perspective messed up so don't start yellin at me for having my boom above centerline... Soem shof og my new main too. And yes I do plan to prime and paint the bare metal on the boom where we welded in a 1/2" thick tang for the vang. The tang was modeled afer the one Kenyon sells through Rig Rite for $100. We had a band saw and some 1/2" plate and a drill... I am extremely blessed to have 2 friends who work in local rigging and fabrication shops who will work for beer and a few sails. Okay they are not really that cheap but close...
 

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ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Okay Last ones with the mast blocks and the stern pulpit waiting for the Navtec adjuster. Plan to finish all the rigging work by month end then get ready to do some racing perhaps as early as august. July is booked with Jet 14 regattas in Newport, Sacandaga NY, and Annapolis, then the Nationals in Annapolis in August. Right now the plan is to try and do the fall Annapolis to Oxford and then the Harbor Cup up to Baltimore. Chris Miller are you doing the race this weekend out of solomons to somewhere near sharps island? My friend with Stitch and Glue may need crew if your are not already doing it.
 

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Kevlarpirate

Member II
Loose foot

I like an attached foot because i can climb into it like a hammok
Loose foot is no faster and does not reduce midboom loading
 

Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
Answer for Ted...

Hey Ted-
SOrry, I've been catching up on some posting here and just saw your invite for this past weekend's race. I was booked on fc, but what a ride! Disapointing that people have such a hard time finding crew for such fun races. We were short as well.
CHris

Pictures look great, BTW:)
 

stbdtack

Member III
Ted, I think thats a lot more bend in your boom than i have seen with mine .Still I think you are ok there. Our boom extrusions are different so yours may be a little more flexible than mine, so like some more bendy masts, its built to flex.
Anyway you have sailed hard so far with no problem...

I'll definitely get a pic of mine when sheeted in hard, as well as the headstay sag. This is really helpful comparing pictures of our setups:egrin:
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Vang on

I got my rigid vang finished and the hydraulic bs. Big difference. Heres some pics upwind in about 18 TWS with single reef and my high clew 100%. Much less flexing than before. Will get shots of the BS soon. I can get about 6" of bend with the BS at 2K. It seems just right for light air around 600lbs. Lots to experiment with now...
 

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ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
It is reversed. Well actually its not yet but will be soon. I have seen and heard from others that you can get a nice airflow in through the fwd hatch and out through the main salon hatch.
 

jgarmin098

Member II
It looks like you went with Lewmar blocks on the main sheet. I just purchased a set for my main sheet. The triple and double blocks had sheaves that would not turn easily. My guess is the sheaves themselves were warped. I returned them with the hopes of getting them replaced with non-defective ones. It's been two weeks now and the replacements are still not forthcoming.

Does Lewmar have a quality control problem...?
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Where did you buy the blocks? I got all but the triple on Ebay new and they have been great. The swivel head feature requires a small allen key to loosen the set screw, but if you are saying the sheaves are sticking that sounds odd. I am using Lewmar Racing 80mm on the main and Racing High Load 60mm on my halyard blocks. I have been very happy with the Lewmar stuff lately. The lewmar racing blocks seem pretty robust for their weight and they are not all plastic like the Harken stuff these days. I am also a big fan of Ronstan hardware. Their working loads are generally pretty high compared to Harken and Lewmar stuff.
 
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