looking for a fast boat, want to be first over the line, not just a handicap winner

[sailinggiant]

Hello gang, I've been racing my 27 ericson this season and doing well in my fleet. With the 243 handicap i place very well. I'm to the point where i want to be first over the line on occasion and that isn't possible with my boat vs j 105's j 92's j 30's ect. I am looking around for a faster boat that is affordable. For instance there is a tartan ten near me for 9 grand and i'm sure i can do better. suggestions?

 

[Morgan Stinemetz]

First over the line...

You already have the boat. The last time I raced mine (1973 E-27 OB) it was a pursuit race. Crackerjack crew. Good headwork. The second boat in our class finished 6:24 behind us in actual time. So we got the gun. Other, bigger boats in our class said to us, "Where were you? We never saw you." Sailed well an E-27 is a giant killer. It requires some work, a tiller extension upwind and a real knowledge of the boat. In 30+ years of racing mine I missed a podium finish maybe 10 times. Lots of loot.

 

[thomthod]

With a boat like a tarten ten or a Pearson flyer you will need at least a good 5 person crew for human ballast. I had a morgan 27 with 3-4 people and came over the line first many times. I am slowly figuring out my Ericson 29. Just put on a boom vang and boom kicker for better sail shape. So its a learning process.

 

[treilley]

I am surprised we have not heard from Loren on this one.

If you want to stay Ericson, get either an Olsen 34 or an Ericson 39.

 

[PDX]

What kind of racing?

Inland in a protected waterway? If so, on a short course, if you really want to be first over the line, no Ericson will keep up with today's lightweight planing racers. The newest Ericson design is now about 30 years old.

If you're satisfied with class and handicap racing, another fast Ericson is the RH 33 although I don't know its handicap. In terms of finding a conspicuously over handicapped Ericson, the 27 stands out. The 35-2 I suspect is now handicapped around 160. It should be extremely competitive at that level, and there are lots of those around.

 

[Loren Beach]

By starting the thread with a possible comparison to J-105, J-30, J92, and similar... Oh MY.... there's just a very huge distance between the apples and the oranges in any comparison.

The strength of the E-27 is how it can go unexpectedly fast and still have a cruising interior. Comparing such a boat to what are like "daysailers you can also sleep on" is futile, IMHO.

There are a few faster performance cruisers to choose from, but not too many...
I would certainly check out the Olson 911S from either Pacific Boats or Ericson. But even if you forsake all pretensions to a dual-use boat and buy something like a Melges or a Flying Tiger, you end with a day sailer that's faster on run/reach... and still.... gets run over by other much richer racers...

Sometime, study Nigel's E-27 pictures in the site splash screens. Nothing slow or late-to-finish about that particular E-27!

I am not trying to be a Smart-A__, but, OTOH, there is the nearly-forgotten strategy of:
1) owning a boat priced at considerably less than you could afford,
2) Equipping it with state of the art sails 'n' gear (and fair those fins really well),
3) Really putting in a LOT of tiller time learning how to sail it, and then committing 5 or 10 years to learning and doing - with a committed crew.

I get the "need for speed". But just don't equate that need with any assumptions about what will gain you more pickle dishes.

And let's not dwell on the practice (even in my own little sailing venue) of throwing pails of money into having a fast design for racing only, that has no effective competition in your sailing area. We have several guys here that have fast boats that have no real competition in racing due to lack of numbers, and then go off and enter the "cruising class" and "Win" (?) there against a gaggle of old pots that should not be matched against them anyway.

OK, sorry, turning 'rant' mode off now!


Loren

ps: speaking of speed under sail, check out a foiling Moth sometime. So much for 'speed limits' !!

 

[sailinggiant]

i hear you

I do hear everybody's input. I do not want a boat that i need a crew of five to sail or race, the e 27 is set up very well for single handing. Any performance mods anyone would care to share?, or maybe sail trimming tips? other than basics. I have faired the bottom rather well considering what was there prior (30 years of paint)next year i'l go after it again. i have an adjustable whisker pole, older sails but in nice shape.(not much time on them) the boat is an outboard model. i have a boom vang, When heading upwind i try to stay on the rail and only come to the cockpit to handle the sails, My tiller man is 74 and has had a stroke in the past he's not so good at anything other than the tiller.he does get in the way sometimes but i doubt i could do better single handed, plus i like to keep him in the game. i guide him to wind changes and puffs and he does the rest. would a newer set of sails make a huge difference? i grew up sailing very old boats with very old sails and these seem good to me, but they are not racing sails. my genoa is a 150 on a roller furler. the main i am unable to date but it is crisp

 

[rwthomas1]

The past few years I've crewed on an Evelyn 26 and it rates well enough in the class its in that we have to be first over the line to win since we are giving time to everyone else. Its not all roses to be the lowest rated boat in the class.

That said, if raw speed is what you are looking for then look at a multihull. Theres a race around Jamestown at the end of every season. The multis start last and then proceed to pass everyone, again, usually the first over the line too. Some of those things a scary quick.

RT

 

[Loren Beach]

Sails = Power

Speaking of Sails......
Whether used for racing, pleasure sailing, or cruising, Well-Cut and Designed sails will make a quantum difference in your boat. (My boat too!)

Often, when someone goes out sailing for the first time with new sails, first thing they talk about is how much better their boat now sails... even tho their 10 or 20 year old sails did not look too bad.

Declining sail shape and efficiency can be subtle unless you are viewing obviously blown-out sails.

LB

 

[John Cyr]

What Loren said.

Sails, and a clean and fair bottom, and sails, and good starting tactics, and sails, and good crew coordination, and sails, and being quick to detect wind shifts (if not predict them altogether) and sails. Seriously, the top competitive racers even in the corinthian classes (ie amateur) will have new sails every season. a main might be good for two or three at the most, but the primary #1 is going to be new, last years genny gets saved for deliveries and coctail cruises.

Selecting a boat based on its percieved killer rating will only work for so long if at all, If one boat in a handicap fleet keeps winning on time, race after race in all types of conditions, The local ratings board is likely to try and rerate them, the defense of superior tactics and yachtsmanship alone as a basis for continuoussuccess is somwhat difficult to prove.

All that being said, although the E 46 and 39 were primarily race designs (and very succesful) they are dated and very heavy by todays standards. As mentioned above, the Ron Holland designs were much more performance oriented and the Olsens were succesful race designs from the get go. I really feel that the O34 was one of the best racer/cruisers ever floated.

One brand not mentioned here would be C&C.These are kind of a cult boat now and one has to be careful as the build quality varied over the years (as did hull construction, some were cored some not) but all of them were damn fast, even the landfall cruising versions. And the currently produced ones are mighty spendy (but mighty sexy too!)

 

[exoduse35]

Cubic dollars are hard to beat! Speed is money... how fast do you want to go? My many years of auto racing has taught me a few things: There is always someone faster. If you are going as fast as you can safely go let the other guy go by, You will pass him back when he gets into trouble... usually sooner than later. Nobody cares who won 2 races back, the last race is for bragging rights and the current race is a fresh chance to have them! AND MOST OF ALL, on average SKILL WINS OUT! If you take the winning-est guy and put him in the biggest turd he will make it fly. To be that guy takes practice and dedication. It holds true no matter what you are racing, They are universal truths. Edd

 

[e38 owner]

That question depends on the fleet

If you are the low handicap you are more likley to be first over the line. For years our 38 was scratch boat and we were and still are first to finish quite often. Other boats that given the right conditions for not a lot of dollars I would consider. I just sold a hobie 33 hard to beat in the right condtions, B25, martin 243, I just saw a Tripp 33 on sailing anarchy in texas cool boat lift keel rates in the 72 area