Looking at an E30+

[Victis]

Hi guys,

I'm pretty new to sailing, have only ever really been on ski boats on lakes but want to get into something a little more relaxed and cruising and have always liked the idea of sailing.

Anyway with that said, I've been looking at boats and starting looking at Catalina 30's for the size and comfort factor but came across a nice E30+ in my area I'm going to go look at tomorrow.

Ive looked at everything I can get my hands on regarding the boats and the one I'm going to look at had the cabin top traveller which I see some did. But instead of the U shaped dinette it has a long bench on the port side almost mirroring the one on the right with what looks like a folding table between.

now finally to the questions.

1) how would these boats compare to the Catalina from a comfort while under way and ease of sailing for a first time learning (I will have some friends who have more sailing experience come out and show me the ropes a few times so to speak)

2) would that dinette layout be original? Every E30+ I have seen pictures of had the U shaped seating on the port side.

Thanks!

 

[Christian Williams]

Either one sounds fine to me for the purpose. The Ericson will sail better, the Catalina will have more room.

I would say, let your impression of which is "better" or "cooler" be your guide.

 

[Loren Beach]

Choices and Options

The Ericson will sail faster and more important, sail easier than the Catalina. If you look at the Cat 30 hull you will see that it carries its beam forward a long ways causing it to have a more 'full' or 'buff' bow shape. If you study the hull shape near the waterline, the Ericson has not only a more streamlined shape forward, but also aft, leaving less disturbed wake.
It's not so much that one design is always faster than the other, but that it achieves its speed with less force and umph. IMHO, if buying a Sail boat, get one that is genuinely fun to drive for all members of the family.

Sidebar: I recall that when we were shopping for a boat in the "thirty foot range" in the early 90's I discussed our shopping plans with a local broker and new boat dealer. We had previously owned a fast 26 foot cruiser/racer for a decade with tiller steering, and I was asking about the ubiquitous Catalina 30's I saw. I was told, tactfully, softly and cautiously, to avoid the early ones with the tiller steering because the helm "feel" was pretty unpleasant compared to what we were used to. And to get one with a wheel because there was not much fun to be had driving. I got the hint.

Since we were not enamored with the Catalina hull-to-deck joint being a "coffee can" joint with adhesive and rivets and also the interior did not have a sit down chart table, we looked at higher-end boats. That led us to Ericson, and after losing a deal on an E-32-200 we found our Olson 34 (constructed by Ericson) and bought it in '94. Still have it.
That Ericson you are thinking about has its hull and deck glassed together on the inside with roving, a more expensive way to build a boat and much stronger. After the passage of the decades, basic strength is important.

The teak interior in that Ericson is also a lot nicer.
You are starting to shop in smaller group of higher-end production boats like Tartan, CS Yachts, Hinterhoeller, Sabre, and of course Ericson.

Now, having done all that cheer leading, I will stress that it's still vital to do your 'due diligence' and get a good survey on any boat of this age.

Post up some pix or a link if wish. We'll help you as much as we are able.

Regards,
Loren

ps: I note that it took Christian a fraction of the number of words to say about what I said.

 

[Christian Williams]

Allow me to add that one of the most unpleasant sailing experiences I ever had was a 4-day charter of a Catalina 30 during perfect sailing conditions, 18 knots on a broad reach.

The boat had a small wheel and steered like a cement mixer, with constant hard corrections to keep it going in a more or less straight line.

That is a characteristic of fat, short boats.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Catalina 30 musings

I owned a 1987 Catalina 30 from 2003 until January of 2012. At that point I decided to "downsize" and went with my current 1984 Ericson 26-2. Here's my take on the boat, pro and con:

Sailing Characteristics: I agree that the boat is not especially fun to sail. I would not say that it has any horrible sailing characteristics, either. Mine was a standard rig and I would typically fly a 110% headsail. I also had a 150% I would use sometimes. I sail in the San Pedro ("Hurricane Gulch") area, where it is often windy and most of the time the 110% worked well. The boat sailed OK but nothing to get too excited about. I did have a 36" wheel on it, which was much nicer than the 28" wheel that came with it. I agree with the comment that the boat is more work to keep on track than some other designs. I definitely enjoy sailing my E26 more than the C30. Some of that is due to the sailing characteristics of the boat and part of that is the fact that I prefer tiller steering. I agree that the helm on a C30 is too heavy for tiller steering to be viable. In terms of sailing characteristics I give the nod to the Ericsons, no question. This is not a minor consideration.

Interior: The interior on the C30 is a major selling point. It has a cavernous interior and is well laid out. All systems are reasonably accessible, including the engine, which is well located for weight distribution. It's a very comfortable boat at anchor or even underway (with the caveats noted in the previous paragraph). I did a trip with the boat to Ensenada with two other buddies and we had a great time and did not feel at all crowded.

Build Quality: Especially in the early models of the C30's production run, Catalina did some pretty funky things that over the years they improved. So if one were to buy a C30, definitely go for one that's a 1989 or later (when they removed the plywood from the keel stub and went with solid glass). Other systems were upgraded by then as well. (I can go into tons more detail with you off line if you want it.) While I do think that Ericsons are well built overall, having gone through the bowels of both boats (the C30 and my E26) pretty thoroughly, I can say that both manufacturers definitely built these boats to a price and I had to correct some pretty surprising flaws in the E26 (e.g., PVC through hulls and valves, an improperly laminated skeg that looked like Swiss cheese when we ground into it, a very odd leak at the base of the rudder tube that only Divine Providence helped us detect, the mounting of the traveler track on an unreinforced seahood that flexed alarmingly, etc. You get the idea.). On the plus side, the wood work in the interior is definitely superior, the stiffening hull stringers (TAFG) make for a solid hull with no creaking or (so far as I know) flexing, a glassed hull-to-deck joint, etc. Oh, and speaking of the hull-to-deck joint: While the Ericson's method of implementing this is arguably superior to Catalinas, the Catalina 30 does *not* have a history of failures with its hull-to-deck joint. It does have some common other areas that fail (as I said, I can provide you with a list), but the hull-to-deck joint simply is not one of them. So I would not let that deter you. I'm not slamming the Ericson in any of this, by the way; I like my boat and am glad I bought it. But I would caution against having an inflated view of the Ericson and assuming that because it is an Ericson that you may not have some things to put right.

Resale: A well-kept Catalina 30 is very easy to sell. Mine was in excellent shape when I sold it, and that always helps. Mine sold in one day (!) for close to what I paid for it--and I bought mine before the economy tanked and boat prices took a serious dump. (I paid $29K for it in 2003 and sold it for $26,500, with no broker, in 2012.) Yes, I realize that if you figure the money I put into maintaining it that I definitely took more of a "loss" than this, but that's going to be true for any boat. Relatively speaking, a well-maintained C30 will hold its value.

Good luck with your search.

 

[Victis]

Thanks for the replies everyone, some great info and very helpful given my lack of experience. I'm trying to avoid buying something I'm gonna need to move on from very quickly once I get more comfortable sailing. The only reason I mentIoned the comfort factor was I had read the Ericson could be more tender than the Cat, which for me is not a big issue but I'll never convince my girlfriend to enjoy a weekend in the San Juans with me if she is sick the whole time!

Here is a link to the Ericson for sale in my area. Not a lot of info in the ad other than some pictures unfortunately, I did talk to the dealer and she sounds like she has been well taken care of over the years with many maintenance items replaced by the PO. she does have the original engine which was rebuilt in 2006 with approx 350 hours since then. The dealer listed it as a 12 HP universal FWC but I'm thinking that can't be accurate given what these boats were orginally equipped with.

Thanks again for all your insights and experience on the two boats!

 

[Victis]

Of course I forgot to add the link....

http://www.thunderbirdmarine.com/boat-info.php?ID=4254

 

[Loren Beach]

We spent a month in the CN Gulf Islands and the US San Juans after the rendezvous @ Maple Bay in 2014.
We hoisted sails once....
While you might get some wind for sailing, the odds are that it will be of short duration and rather rare. "Light Air" is the norm.
Your girl friend should be fine.

Occasional huge wakes from inconsiderate Bayliners will be a larger irritant...


BTW, do plan on attending the Ericson Rendezvous, somewhere in southern BC waters in 2016 (location yet to be chosen).

Regards,
Loren

 

[Loren Beach]

Of course I forgot to add the link....

http://www.thunderbirdmarine.com/boat-info.php?ID=4254

Wowsers!
That is a good looking boat.


Loren

 

[Frank Langer]

I am an avid coastal sailor and have owned our 1984 E30+ for ten years, after owning two previous boats. They are great boats and ours has served us very well. They are easy to single-hand which I do about 75% of the time, sailing year round in BC. We have also had seven people aboard for a day sail (yes, a bit crowded) and five people sleeping on board for a week--also a bit crowded but we managed.

Storage space is a bit tight on the E30+ but that would be my only complaint. I love how she sails and have definitely not outgrown her, a concern you asked about.

As always, a good survey is important, but if in good condition, she would be a good buy at that price.

Frank

 

[Christian Williams]

Yep, nice boat. Lotsa extras, and apparently a compulsive previous owner--which is what we like around here.

 

[Shaun748]

I much prefer to read stuff hear rather then post but I just got a 30+ in Febuary and love it. Frank has been helpful with questions I had. I am only posting in regard to taking girlfriend sailing. my boat feels more tender then friends 2001 catalina of similar size. I only singlehand and I have a fake leg so I dont like a lot of heel angle myself..all you have to do is reef some sail when she goes with you..if she is new to sailing she will enjoy a chill 15 degree max heel over a rail in the water race...I run a single reefed main and furled 135 gen in all but light wind and it works great..if I even sneeze at the sails my 30+ heels to 25 degrees....even reefed a bit its still plenty of speed plus reasonable heel angle..I had a hunter 26 prior to this and love the ericson so far...it got me home safe from catalina in a small craft warning gale with 6 and some 10 ft swell a few months ago and I never felt any problem with the boat in the conditions,,i couldnt wait to get to harbor but boat was no issue..the 14 hp m-18 in mine only does 5 1/2 knots in harbor conditions and wish for few more horsepower...if similar condition I would take ericson over catalina...all the catalinas I saw had pretty bad gelcoat cracking...my ericson almost zero and with a fake leg I prefer the larger flat flooring of my boat..I also have the stock U seatee and rooftop traveler which I assume is a 1995 placement..

 

[Victis]

Update

All the info has been awesome and I'm sold on the E30+ over the Catalina aside from the much smaller galley in the Catalina the ericson seems to be a little more heavily built.

That being said the particular boat I looked at was nice with many extras but the dinette seems to be modified which I don't love. And the cabin sole was redone in a configuration that seems to depart from the way they were originally made, with the wood extending most of the floor and two small bilge covers vs the one large one.

The engine panel also seems to be strange with the key/glow plugs on the port lazarett and the tach and temp gauges below the companion why hatch.

Anyway, I like the boat, I'm just not sure if I'm "in like" with it. Lol. The dinette turns me off a bit.

For the price and that it is otherwise a well maintained boat perhaps I should just accept these minor annoyances.

Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[Christian Williams]

The dinette seating alteration does seem unexplained. Was it changed to permit the heater? Perhaps when the new upholstery was ordered?

Is there evidence of screw holes from a former configuration, or is it possible this was an Ericson alternative from the factory?

And the cabin sole--a new sole is an upgrade but a non-standard sole is ... not.

I would think a broker could pass on the questions to the owner, who ought to know the answers.

 

[woolamaloo]

Bilge covers on a 30+

All the info has been awesome and I'm sold on the E30+ over the Catalina aside from the much smaller galley in the Catalina the ericson seems to be a little more heavily built.

That being said the particular boat I looked at was nice with many extras but the dinette seems to be modified which I don't love. And the cabin sole was redone in a configuration that seems to depart from the way they were originally made, with the wood extending most of the floor and two small bilge covers vs the one large one.

The engine panel also seems to be strange with the key/glow plugs on the port lazarett and the tach and temp gauges below the companion why hatch.

Anyway, I like the boat, I'm just not sure if I'm "in like" with it. Lol. The dinette turns me off a bit.

For the price and that it is otherwise a well maintained boat perhaps I should just accept these minor annoyances.

Thanks again for all the advice.

My '85 30+ has three small bilge access hatches in the sole instead of one large hatch. (One is under the companionway ladder - you may have missed that one.) They are probably about 10" x 6". So, that part might not be a modification. I don't have a picture specifically taken for the hatches but here's a picture of my rug where you can see one and a half hatches.

I agree that the dinette is a little wonky. My impression when I first saw it was that it made room for the heater.

Good luck on your decision.

Jim
Woolamaloo
1985 E30+ Hull #685