Eventually I'll know something about sailing and I will be able to answer more questions than I ask. Until then, how long should a spinnaker pole be for a E35 with a J=14'. There's a really nice pole on Ebay right now that's 16'. Is this too big for a 14ft foredeck. As always, I thank you for any help.
...saving a b.u.c.
The answer is: It Depends....
From a practical standpoint, the longer the spinn pole, the more hassle to handle and to store on deck. Whatever the length, it will be a separate project for your boat to fit deck chocks or perhaps the newer stanchion-mount chocks, if those work for the stanchion spacing on your boat.
If racing, you get penalized in your rating for an "over-length" pole -- it gives you a potential extra advantage in light air to better project your spinnaker area.
When shopping the used market and trying to save a buck, it is often possible to buy a longer pole and shorten it and re-attach the end. You would probably need new bridles anyway, if the original ones are old and worn. Trip lines would need to be shortened. Small coated SS wire is not expensive and you can do your own swages with one of the inexpensive end-wrench operated "hand held swagers."
Going in, try to find out (from one of the many owners of sisterships on this site) just what OD pole you really should use. I would imagine that anything over 3" would be too much, but I have not sailed on or rigged an E-35.
Sidebar: while you have the new (well, new to you...) pole apart, that is a fine time to stuff the inside with foam "peanuts" so that it will float on that fatefull day when it slips over the side and it takes you a while to reverse course and go back to pick it up. Do not ask why I reccommend this...
What with the cost of a new pole being quite high, used is often a good way to start. Check the ends and the piston slides very carefully. Sometimes corrosion has frozen them in place.
When we bought our boat, the fancy Forespar "trigger" ends were totally corroded/jammed and I had to take the pole completely apart. I finally had to drill out the pole-end alum. casting and sleeve each end with some SS bushings. Then I put in new pistons and springs. Works fine for a decade since.
Note that your J measurement will cause your new pole, when re-sized for your boat, to measure 14" from inside of jaw on one end to inside of jaw on the other end.
And, if I am guessing wrong, thank goodness we have a bunch of owners of similar-size Ericsons lurking here to correct me!
Best Fishes,
Loren in PDX
The answer is: It Depends....
From a practical standpoint, the longer the spinn pole, the more hassle to handle and to store on deck. Whatever the length, it will be a separate project for your boat to fit deck chocks or perhaps the newer stanchion-mount chocks, if those work for the stanchion spacing on your boat.
If racing, you get penalized in your rating for an "over-length" pole -- it gives you a potential extra advantage in light air to better project your spinnaker area.
When shopping the used market and trying to save a buck, it is often possible to buy a longer pole and shorten it and re-attach the end. You would probably need new bridles anyway, if the original ones are old and worn. Trip lines would need to be shortened. Small coated SS wire is not expensive and you can do your own swages with one of the inexpensive end-wrench operated "hand held swagers."
Going in, try to find out (from one of the many owners of sisterships on this site) just what OD pole you really should use. I would imagine that anything over 3" would be too much, but I have not sailed on or rigged an E-35.
Sidebar: while you have the new (well, new to you...) pole apart, that is a fine time to stuff the inside with foam "peanuts" so that it will float on that fatefull day when it slips over the side and it takes you a while to reverse course and go back to pick it up. Do not ask why I reccommend this...
What with the cost of a new pole being quite high, used is often a good way to start. Check the ends and the piston slides very carefully. Sometimes corrosion has frozen them in place.
When we bought our boat, the fancy Forespar "trigger" ends were totally corroded/jammed and I had to take the pole completely apart. I finally had to drill out the pole-end alum. casting and sleeve each end with some SS bushings. Then I put in new pistons and springs. Works fine for a decade since.
Note that your J measurement will cause your new pole, when re-sized for your boat, to measure 14" from inside of jaw on one end to inside of jaw on the other end.
And, if I am guessing wrong, thank goodness we have a bunch of owners of similar-size Ericsons lurking here to correct me!
Best Fishes,
Loren in PDX
Chris Miller
Sustaining Member
yeah, as long as you aren't paying to ship the pole- cutting it down seems like a good plan. Learning about the inside workings of the end units, by cleaning them all out will really help later on when things freeze up
If you don't have a lot of experience with a pole, I wouldn't suggest using a 2 ft oversized pole- they are enough trouble at J length until you get used to it. But if you aren't shipping it, cutting it down should work.
FWIW, our 38 has a 16' J dimension--- and if we were using a symetrical kite, we'd be doing dip gybes with sheets and guys; no way would I try to swing that sucker around in a medium breeze... but that's just my $0.02.
Chris
Loren, I'm trying to figure out how the pole went in the drink with a topping lift and a down-guy hooked to it... story?? And would packing peanuts really keep an aluminum pole up? coool......
If you don't have a lot of experience with a pole, I wouldn't suggest using a 2 ft oversized pole- they are enough trouble at J length until you get used to it. But if you aren't shipping it, cutting it down should work.
FWIW, our 38 has a 16' J dimension--- and if we were using a symetrical kite, we'd be doing dip gybes with sheets and guys; no way would I try to swing that sucker around in a medium breeze... but that's just my $0.02.
Chris
Loren, I'm trying to figure out how the pole went in the drink with a topping lift and a down-guy hooked to it... story??
And would packing peanuts really keep an aluminum pole up? coool......windjunkee
Member III
For standard PHRF ratings, a spin pole should be the same length as your 'J' measurement, otherwise you get penalized. Cutting a pole down is easy, but if you do that, I would buy new fittings. They're not that expensive. Its mainly the pole. A carbon pole with standard fittings for my boat runs around $1,200.00 completely rigged, but the end fittings themselves run only around $75.00 each for the composite ones.
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA
"Don't let go of your Pole"
Hi Chris,
All the peanuts do is maintain the air inside the tube that initially keeps it floating high. As the air hisses out around the end fittings it floats upright for a while, but gets lower and lower... and...
How did it go OB, you inquire? After the last takedown stuff is being unhooked and pole is being guided into chocks -- boat is driving to weather in traffic, and what with distractions and wave action and movement... it could slide over the rail. We almost lost one OB on our last boat this way but someone got hands on the end and saved it.
After that I put "floatation" inside the pole on that boat, and again on this pole when I rebuilt it.
On another "busy" night around the buoys, I did watch the tail end of the guy zip down the low side and become "one with the river" one windy night. This was after a takedown; and we never used shackles, just bowlines -- saves weight. Had there been a shackle involved it would have caught in the turning block...
Fun times! Winning season! Wonderful Crew!
Since no one on our boat swore at anyone else, I am given to understand that what we did was not "real racing," but we sure had fun out there.
Cheers,
Loren in PDX
Hi Chris,
All the peanuts do is maintain the air inside the tube that initially keeps it floating high. As the air hisses out around the end fittings it floats upright for a while, but gets lower and lower... and...
How did it go OB, you inquire? After the last takedown stuff is being unhooked and pole is being guided into chocks -- boat is driving to weather in traffic, and what with distractions and wave action and movement... it could slide over the rail. We almost lost one OB on our last boat this way but someone got hands on the end and saved it.
After that I put "floatation" inside the pole on that boat, and again on this pole when I rebuilt it.
On another "busy" night around the buoys, I did watch the tail end of the guy zip down the low side and become "one with the river" one windy night. This was after a takedown; and we never used shackles, just bowlines -- saves weight. Had there been a shackle involved it would have caught in the turning block...
Fun times! Winning season! Wonderful Crew!
Since no one on our boat swore at anyone else, I am given to understand that what we did was not "real racing," but we sure had fun out there.
Cheers,
Loren in PDX
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Pole length
The total length of the pole should be your J dimension (14'?) from the front of the mast to the inside of the jaw, not jaw to jaw. This only matters if you are racing PHRF or IRC rules. Otherwise whatever is cool! Shipping is the major cost with any pole, shortening is no big deal. I do like Loren's inea w/peanuts in the tube. Little added weight and buys you the extra few seconds it might take.
Have fun & sail fast
Bud Dankers E34 "Escapade"
The total length of the pole should be your J dimension (14'?) from the front of the mast to the inside of the jaw, not jaw to jaw. This only matters if you are racing PHRF or IRC rules. Otherwise whatever is cool! Shipping is the major cost with any pole, shortening is no big deal. I do like Loren's inea w/peanuts in the tube. Little added weight and buys you the extra few seconds it might take.
Have fun & sail fast
Bud Dankers E34 "Escapade"
windjunkee
Member III
so in other words, Seth, are you saying that we can't have an attachment to the track on the mast that sticks out a foot and then attach our 13 ft pole to that?
Seriously, we have a 13' pole and with the track and the ring attachment, the end of the pole sits probably an inch from the forward face of the mast. Would that technically violate the PHRF rule? (not that anyone will argue about an inch)
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA
Seriously, we have a 13' pole and with the track and the ring attachment, the end of the pole sits probably an inch from the forward face of the mast. Would that technically violate the PHRF rule? (not that anyone will argue about an inch)
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA
Depends....
...on what your definition of "is" is....
But seriously, in the physical measurement process-for Socal and most regions, the SPL begins on the surface of the mast track-since it is bolted to the mast, it is now part of the mast, and serves as the fwd edge of the mast. From here, you are limited to 13 feet to the end of the pole.
But in reality, the impact of having an rated SPL 1" longer than the J is meaningless. But, if you went strictly by the book, you should shorten your pole so the SPL does not exceed 13' from the front of the mast track.
I really doubt any self respecting PHRF board would care either way, and your argument is that if the kites are built to a J of only 13', then you are not really benefiting from the 1" oversize SPL-and nothing should happen to the rating at all. And in real terms, if you declare a J/SPL of 13' have kites built to that J, and have a pole at 13', I doubt the 1" would not matter-or even be noticed.
Don't worry, be happy!
S
...on what your definition of "is" is....
But seriously, in the physical measurement process-for Socal and most regions, the SPL begins on the surface of the mast track-since it is bolted to the mast, it is now part of the mast, and serves as the fwd edge of the mast. From here, you are limited to 13 feet to the end of the pole.
But in reality, the impact of having an rated SPL 1" longer than the J is meaningless. But, if you went strictly by the book, you should shorten your pole so the SPL does not exceed 13' from the front of the mast track.
I really doubt any self respecting PHRF board would care either way, and your argument is that if the kites are built to a J of only 13', then you are not really benefiting from the 1" oversize SPL-and nothing should happen to the rating at all. And in real terms, if you declare a J/SPL of 13' have kites built to that J, and have a pole at 13', I doubt the 1" would not matter-or even be noticed.
Don't worry, be happy!
S