Your timing is just a little off.
Could you tell us where you found the leak in the shower pan, and how you determined that was where to look? Apparently for years, my E38 has had water under the bow drawers and there is quite a bit of damage to the shower bulkhead, the bottom drawer cutout, and the adjacent angled bulkhead further to starboard. I am just noticing that there is discoloration to the bow floorboard and the "vanity" seat vertical piece. After I eliminate the problem, I will fix the last four damaged areas.
It took me almost two years to get down to serious troubleshooting - taking things apart. It's the bow water tank, obviously. Obviously.
The PO had the bow water tank pressure tested. I could never determine for sure that the outlet fitting wasn't leaking. I couldn't feel any moisture there. I resisted the very reasonable suggestion that I put food coloring dye in the water - just stubbornness.
A few weeks ago I removed the tank and confirmed it is sound. The 1/2" gray plastic outlet elbow was installed backwards, and there was a lot of rust caked around it where it went into the tank. So I am still suspicious of that. One side is pipe thread and the other is straight thread, but it is very hard to tell which is which. Try it both ways and you'll see the difference. Properly installed, with the pipe thread into the tank fitting, there is no leak there.
We did one overnight with the tank out (used the shower!), and found a little water a few days later when I thought to check. Unfortunately, I had not closed the gray plastic ship's supply line, so I still haven't ruled out that source for this last incident. I've found no evidence of deck leaks or from further forward. I've checked under the head sink - nothing wet. And it was fresh water.
This past weekend (really) it occurred to me that the shower drain could be the source of the water, but I haven't taken it apart since I'm working to put things back together for the rendezvous this coming weekend. The bulkhead sealing job looks relatively new, but that is meaningless. Maybe I'll look at the drain itself tomorrow night.
Could you tell us where you found the leak in the shower pan, and how you determined that was where to look? Apparently for years, my E38 has had water under the bow drawers and there is quite a bit of damage to the shower bulkhead, the bottom drawer cutout, and the adjacent angled bulkhead further to starboard. I am just noticing that there is discoloration to the bow floorboard and the "vanity" seat vertical piece. After I eliminate the problem, I will fix the last four damaged areas.
It took me almost two years to get down to serious troubleshooting - taking things apart. It's the bow water tank, obviously. Obviously.
The PO had the bow water tank pressure tested. I could never determine for sure that the outlet fitting wasn't leaking. I couldn't feel any moisture there. I resisted the very reasonable suggestion that I put food coloring dye in the water - just stubbornness.
A few weeks ago I removed the tank and confirmed it is sound. The 1/2" gray plastic outlet elbow was installed backwards, and there was a lot of rust caked around it where it went into the tank. So I am still suspicious of that. One side is pipe thread and the other is straight thread, but it is very hard to tell which is which. Try it both ways and you'll see the difference. Properly installed, with the pipe thread into the tank fitting, there is no leak there.
We did one overnight with the tank out (used the shower!), and found a little water a few days later when I thought to check. Unfortunately, I had not closed the gray plastic ship's supply line, so I still haven't ruled out that source for this last incident. I've found no evidence of deck leaks or from further forward. I've checked under the head sink - nothing wet. And it was fresh water.
This past weekend (really) it occurred to me that the shower drain could be the source of the water, but I haven't taken it apart since I'm working to put things back together for the rendezvous this coming weekend. The bulkhead sealing job looks relatively new, but that is meaningless. Maybe I'll look at the drain itself tomorrow night.
Geoff Johnson
Fellow Ericson Owner
It seems that the way the boats are contructed, at least on my model and the 35-3, the plywood bulkheads are bolted to the shower pan so that shower water can run down the bulkhead and get between the plywood and the pan. I think the only solution is to try to seal that joint.
how I foundthe leak
Foot rope
I don't use the front water tank very often because it makes the boat float bow down. So right now it is empty and has been all season. Like your boat I have damage to the bulkhead where the shower pan bolts to the wood. This weekend I was making sure A new through hull did not leak and found water draining from the shower after it was used under the sink. I then check the other side and found water that had been sitting for some time. The water under the drawers has no place to go and will not evaporate. I cleaned up the water and let it dry. While the shower was next used I looked under the drawers and started to see water coming from behind the bulk head. I am sure it is not the drain that is leaking but the seal or lack of seals between the shower bulkheads, shower seat and the shower pan.
Foot rope
I don't use the front water tank very often because it makes the boat float bow down. So right now it is empty and has been all season. Like your boat I have damage to the bulkhead where the shower pan bolts to the wood. This weekend I was making sure A new through hull did not leak and found water draining from the shower after it was used under the sink. I then check the other side and found water that had been sitting for some time. The water under the drawers has no place to go and will not evaporate. I cleaned up the water and let it dry. While the shower was next used I looked under the drawers and started to see water coming from behind the bulk head. I am sure it is not the drain that is leaking but the seal or lack of seals between the shower bulkheads, shower seat and the shower pan.
u079721
Contributing Partner
Mine leaked too
Our 1989 E-38 had the aft shower stall, but it too leaked into the bilge and under the head sink. At first I caulked every seam on all the panels in the shower, figuring that was the problem. It helped, but there still seemed to be soap in the bilge. I then carefully sealed the gap around the drain hose in the shower drain, and the gap around where the hose entered the shower sump. Also sealed the gap around the wiring to the shower sump bilge switch. After that it finally seemed water tight - at least till the bilge switch failed and I found soapy water all over the cabin sole. After that a spare bilge swtich was added to the spares locker.
Our 1989 E-38 had the aft shower stall, but it too leaked into the bilge and under the head sink. At first I caulked every seam on all the panels in the shower, figuring that was the problem. It helped, but there still seemed to be soap in the bilge. I then carefully sealed the gap around the drain hose in the shower drain, and the gap around where the hose entered the shower sump. Also sealed the gap around the wiring to the shower sump bilge switch. After that it finally seemed water tight - at least till the bilge switch failed and I found soapy water all over the cabin sole. After that a spare bilge swtich was added to the spares locker.
This weekend in Port Townsend we will take several showers and see what we can see. I better make sure it's dry before we get underway in the morning. It nauseates me to think I might have been tasting shower drippings for two years. Never saw or tasted any suds, though.
Geoff, it sounds like the 38s with the forward shower have the same construction as your 35.
To go back to the survey two years ago, we found water under the drawers that we thought may have come from all the way forward at the pointy end. We found a couple cups of fresh water in the bow cavity in front of where the depth transducer is located. It appeared water was able to seep aft from there. No such luck, or at least that wasn't the only source. That's been dry since I dried it out after I got the boat home. (That water came from the anchor locker, that had a plugged drain, that overflowed the locker and went down the hawsepipe into the chain locker, and then to the lowest part of the point of the bow.)
There was water in the bow tank all those months it sat at the brokers dock, too. So, finally, I got the gumption to pull the tank.
e38owner I hope you don't have to tear your shower apart. I hope neither of us do.
Geoff, it sounds like the 38s with the forward shower have the same construction as your 35.
To go back to the survey two years ago, we found water under the drawers that we thought may have come from all the way forward at the pointy end. We found a couple cups of fresh water in the bow cavity in front of where the depth transducer is located. It appeared water was able to seep aft from there. No such luck, or at least that wasn't the only source. That's been dry since I dried it out after I got the boat home. (That water came from the anchor locker, that had a plugged drain, that overflowed the locker and went down the hawsepipe into the chain locker, and then to the lowest part of the point of the bow.)
There was water in the bow tank all those months it sat at the brokers dock, too. So, finally, I got the gumption to pull the tank.
e38owner I hope you don't have to tear your shower apart. I hope neither of us do.
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Leaky shower
Quite a weekend at the NW Ericson Rendezvous for 2005. Sadly, after showering while underway southbound (I believe my crew was cheering though) I found more water in the bow again. No chance it was from somewhere else. I think it's coming from the seat area of the shower, so it's time to drill out a couple bungs and see what I can find. The drain tube appears to be well sealed, but I'll run some water through there just to make sure I tear up only what is necessary.
I can put the bow tank in without fear and finish out that other thread with my reconfigured settee tank vent.
Quite a weekend at the NW Ericson Rendezvous for 2005. Sadly, after showering while underway southbound (I believe my crew was cheering though) I found more water in the bow again. No chance it was from somewhere else. I think it's coming from the seat area of the shower, so it's time to drill out a couple bungs and see what I can find. The drain tube appears to be well sealed, but I'll run some water through there just to make sure I tear up only what is necessary.
I can put the bow tank in without fear and finish out that other thread with my reconfigured settee tank vent.
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u079721
Contributing Partner
Removing the bungs was the worst part
By far the worst part about sealing all the seams in the shower pan was removing all of those beautiful teak bungs in all the teak trim pieces in all the corners. After that it was straightforward.
I never did get around to replacing the bungs, even after 10 years - even though my wife was always after me to do so (just never rose to the top of "the list").
By far the worst part about sealing all the seams in the shower pan was removing all of those beautiful teak bungs in all the teak trim pieces in all the corners. After that it was straightforward.
I never did get around to replacing the bungs, even after 10 years - even though my wife was always after me to do so (just never rose to the top of "the list").
My wife wants me to replace the bungs, too. Weird. To get them out I used a hammer and screwdriver at first, then a drill. First night of work I forgot the drill.
Attached are pictures of the shower seat in my 1980 E38, without the trim pieces. Note the large gap at the back edge of the seat. I can figure out how to seal cracks and narrow gaps, but I am wondering if you had big gaps - 1/4" or more - to contend with? I really don't want to seal the trim pieces, I want to seal the gaps. Still puzzling over this one. Suggestions?
I was also wondering if I should cover the end-grain of the plywood. I am tempted to seal that with epoxy and sand it fairly smooth, so that sealer will stick. And then water will not continue to get into the wood, since I don't want to seal the trim.
Thanks,
Attached are pictures of the shower seat in my 1980 E38, without the trim pieces. Note the large gap at the back edge of the seat. I can figure out how to seal cracks and narrow gaps, but I am wondering if you had big gaps - 1/4" or more - to contend with? I really don't want to seal the trim pieces, I want to seal the gaps. Still puzzling over this one. Suggestions?
I was also wondering if I should cover the end-grain of the plywood. I am tempted to seal that with epoxy and sand it fairly smooth, so that sealer will stick. And then water will not continue to get into the wood, since I don't want to seal the trim.
Thanks,
Attachments
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ShowerSeat-noTrim01-reduced.jpg -
ShowerSeatGapDetail01-reduced.jpg
Geoff Johnson
Fellow Ericson Owner
Why not "bed" the trim in clear silicone? That should keep the water out of the cracks.
sealing shower pan....
I sealed the panels and trim with silicone. I cut the tip of the nozzle into a V shape with a razor. Oriented the cut tip so that a very small filet was layed into the joints. Havent had any leaks. Removing all the trim would be the proper way to seal it I think. But this only took about 1/2 hour.....
Ben
I sealed the panels and trim with silicone. I cut the tip of the nozzle into a V shape with a razor. Oriented the cut tip so that a very small filet was layed into the joints. Havent had any leaks. Removing all the trim would be the proper way to seal it I think. But this only took about 1/2 hour.....
Ben
u079721
Contributing Partner
The gap in the back of our stall was not that big, allowing me to put a bead of caulk along and pretty much close it up. But even so, I put the molding on top of the wet caulk, so in effect I was still using the molding trim as part of the solution. In your case I would probably put caulk on the back of the trim and top caulk both the top and bottom edges to be sure that gap is sealed. You wouldn't want to try sealing the gap with anything like expanding foam, as you will need to get behind there to replace hoses and such.
You guys were right...
I just finished sealing up the shower. I bedded every trim piece in clear silicone and then ran a bead along all the edges, miter joints, and on every horizontal and vertical junction in the walls, shelf and seat. The best way to do it was as you suggested. I didn't even try any other techniques or add any fillers in the big gaps. Not too difficult of a job, once I resigned myself to the mess.
Here's to a dry bow - on to the v-berth drawer bulkhead delamination repair. Next year.
Cheers,
I just finished sealing up the shower. I bedded every trim piece in clear silicone and then ran a bead along all the edges, miter joints, and on every horizontal and vertical junction in the walls, shelf and seat. The best way to do it was as you suggested. I didn't even try any other techniques or add any fillers in the big gaps. Not too difficult of a job, once I resigned myself to the mess.
Here's to a dry bow - on to the v-berth drawer bulkhead delamination repair. Next year.
Cheers,