larger waste holding tank?

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redbeard1

Member II
Hello all,

Our holding tank, which I think is stock (approx 15 gallons if memory serves), is too small. Last summer, when crossing Lake Michigan on a 2.5 day trip, the limitations were very apparent.

Has anyone replaced the tank on their ericson? We are thinking of something around 30 gallons.

Thanks.
 
R

redbeard1

Member II
Hi Herbert,

Not positive on the size, but I don't think it is much bigger. I'll try to find the calculations to confirm. On our boat, the waste tank is on a shelf that sits on top of the hot water heater at the extreme forward port side of the starboard lazarette.
 
S

supersailor

Contributing Partner
On my '87 34, the holding tank is mounted aft of the hot water tank and it is tapered to almost a point at the bottom. My manual says it is 27gal. The arrangement on the PSC sounds very different.


Chopping out old Hose.JPG
 
R

redbeard1

Member II
Thanks for the link Loren, that helps to visualize what is possible but I think we need a much bigger tank (27 might work well).

Supersailor - thanks for the picture. Ours is very different and cubish, no tapering. If we use our existing space, maybe we can install a bigger tank that uses the space to starboard. Otherwise, maybe we can install one like yours and move the hoses lower.

edit: i did confirm our tank is about 15 gallons.
 

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Loren Beach

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Not really a "waste of time"...

Not to cause any undue thread drift, but picture 1 appears to show an "old" ferro resonant battery charger. There was one in our '88 model when we bought it, and it had previously cooked and ruined the batteries. I replaced it with a solid state multi-stage charger and also moved it to another location. This change alone later gave me more room for the enlarged holding tank.

Take note also that if/when you put in a new tank, you can change to dip tubes extending down from the top. The staff at Ronco are very accommodating and helpful to work with.

The original scheme had two outlets on one side of the tank bottom, which meant that those particular hoses were full of waste all of the time.

Remember: wear vinyl gloves, keep the bottle of bleach/soap handy, and have lots of disposable rags. Then take a long hot shower before touching your keyboard and telling us about the work!
:rolleyes:
 
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H

HerbertFriedman

Member III
I wish I could take a clear photo of my waste tank (87 E34) but I have a refer compressor for the starboard "ice box" that is in the way. But it sounds like it is in the same location as in Bob's boat. My manual says 25 gal and I have filled it to about 20 gal before pumping it so I am sure it is larger than 15 gal.

I too had the same old style battery charger as in your photo. I added a third battery dedicated to starting and changed the battery charger to a solid state one with three levels. Never had a problem with the old charger but the new modern ones sure have lots more features.
 
R

redbeard1

Member II
Thanks Loren,

Fortunately, I'm pretty cautious and always use rubber gloves, masks, and eye-protection when working on stuff like this.

I had to clean out the anti-siphon valve on the head this summer. We cleaned it thinking that it might be the cause of waste water back-filling the toilet. We realized afterwards the waste tank was beyond overfilled. It does not take too many 1 gallon flushes to fill a 15 gallon tank. The system was highly pressurized as i began dis-assembly. lol.

The battery charger is made by lewco and it has served us very well. I'm pretty sure it is a 3 stage charger. I will explore moving it a bit aft to make room for a larger waste tank.
 
R

rpm

Member II
Holding tanks

Here's a thought. Why a holding tank at all? Porta potty is drained from the dock or lifted out easily. No smells. No silicone. OK, maybe if you anchor a lot with a big crew but otherwise there is a good alternative.
 
S

supersailor

Contributing Partner
There is a built in cleat on the liner for the '87 at the aft end of the holding tank to keep it from drifting aft. Yours is unlikely to have that so you could increase the fore and aft depth in order to get more volume or you could go up for more volume. That's what I would have to do.

Herb, my boat is an early model (#15). Maybe Ericson was still getting the facts or the volumes correct still. I know that, in three different places, it shows that that my capacity for my three tank water system is 72, 80, and 82 gallons. Ah no computers to double check you back then. I go with the 72 gallons so I have no surprises.

rpm, I had Porta-Potties on many smaller boats. Now I have a fresh water smart flush Raretan Elegance with a full size bowl that uses less flush water than it's hand crank predecessor. The ladies all absolutely love it and there is absolutely no smell. No way am I going back to packing waste up the ramp and dumping it in a toilet! Also, the capacities of Porta-Potties are very small. A composting toilet could be a viable alternative but they don't fit in my boat.
 
Christian Williams

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
picture 1 appears to show an "old" ferro resonant battery charger.

First thing I noticed, too. Get a modern charger before any new batteries.
 
H

HerbertFriedman

Member III
As long as we are talking about spaces and capacities, permit me to drift a bit to a topic that many E34 owners may have faced.

The battery compartment in the E34 just fits two group 27 batteries, and I mean, just fits, no extra room whatsoever. I combined both those batteries into one house bank and installed a group 24 starting battery nearby in the space next to the prop shaft. I bought a battery box to fit and epoxied it in place, no problem there.

But I have too many small gauge wires going to the terminals of the house bank; 1 kW inverter, battery charger, both port and starboard refers, Balmar smart gauge, Balmar charging relay, and bilge pump, and all their respective grounds. All are fused but the mess of wires is a pain. I would like to install two terminal strips (+ and -) to make better access to the batteries, i.e. water check and addition, removal, etc. Any ideas where to mount such terminal strips, there is absolutely no room inside the battery compartment. Do I need to cut a section out of the aft berth platform? The terminal strips need to be before the main battery switch so mounting such strips in the engine compartment and then having to route back to the main battery switch is pain.
 
toddster

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Well, this could have its own thread, but it sounds like Herbert is talking about heavy-gauge main bus bars. How does this differ from the regular house distribution panel? Maybe in size and location. Maybe not at all, if the main panel is sufficiently heavy duty, but I think few panels found on our boats can take large loads. And certain loads (e.g. SSB radio) shouldn't go through the panel for other reasons.

A lot of people have added a main grounding bus in the engine compartment, to alleviate a rats nest of grounds scabbed onto the engine over the years. Does this really need to be in the engine compartment, or is it there just for historical reasons? (i.e. the wires already go there.) I dunno, that's where I put mine.

In order to avoid scabbing too many leads to the battery post, I recently made a new main hot bus, inside a dedicated enclosure close to the batteries. This was because I had (or planned) several large loads that are too large for my house panel. But as more charging devices are added to the boat, it might be a place to add a charging bus as well. Though I think that might require its own switch, unless the controllers have an "off" position. Darn, I may have to rebuild the whole thing.
 
S

supersailor

Contributing Partner
While I was rebuilding my electrical system, Loren sent me a Link to the perfect solution It is a battery terminal fuse link that attaches to the battery terminal and has four circuits that are fused with standard blade type fuses. This neatly takes care of the close in fuse needed for such things as battery charger wires and instrument protection. I believe Loren put his directly on the appropriate batteries. I took a little different tack and used two Blue Seas Battery Terminals at the top of the engine compartment on the right side. They are located just behind the high amperage fuses. I have 0ne cable going to the battery bank to each of these. All connections are made at this block. The plus of this is I don't have to tear up the aft bunk to check the systems and the battery boxes are clean. The fuse block is the bright red one. You can see only one in this shot. Note, this battery post should be no more than 3' from the batteries

I am in Canada at the moment and don't have access to all my references. Maybe Loren could post the Link for this really neat solution. It would keep many would be electricians from becoming frustrated.

I was able to put two Group 31 AGM's in my battery compartment, If you use AGM"s, be sure your regulator is compatible.


P1000506-001.JPG
 
Tom Metzger

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
HerbertFriedman said:
I wish I could take a clear photo of my waste tank (87 E34) but I have a refer compressor for the starboard "ice box" that is in the way. But it sounds like it is in the same location as in Bob's boat. My manual says 25 gal and I have filled it to about 20 gal before pumping it so I am sure it is larger than 15 gal.

I too had the same old style battery charger as in your photo. I added a third battery dedicated to starting and changed the battery charger to a solid state one with three levels. Never had a problem with the old charger but the new modern ones sure have lots more features.
Click to expand...

On my '87 E-34 the OEM holding tank is a Ronco B-187. 20 gallons per Ronco. The owner's manual says it is 25 gallons, but it was probably written before the Ronco was purchased.

https://ronco-plastics.com/newRonco/product_details.php?prodID=80#

Holding tank label.jpg

Here is a pic of the tank in the boat. This was taken to show the level gauge conductors. A piece of plywood covers them normally.

Tank Monitor 002 (Medium).jpg
 
Rocinante33

Rocinante33

Contributing Partner
redbeard1 said:
We cleaned it thinking that it might be the cause of waste water back-filling the toilet. We realized afterwards the waste tank was beyond overfilled. It does not take too many 1 gallon flushes to fill a 15 gallon tank. The system was highly pressurized as i began dis-assembly. lol.
Click to expand...

True words, but if the contents are only pee, we are probably only adding a couple of cups of water to flush. More if it’s a “big job,” but still much less than a gallon.

Also check your vent to make sure it is clear. If it is clogged, you won’t get everything pumped out when you attempt it, even at a pump out station. I found that out the hard way, at Santa Cruz Island, 20 miles offshore. We had a full tank not long after pumping out. After cleaning out the clogged vent (some rust in there), we sailed 3 miles offshore and did a manual pump out. That didn’t work too well, either, so we put the boat on a port tack (my holding tank is port side) and pumped again and that did the trick and emptied it out.
 
H

HerbertFriedman

Member III
Christian Williams said:
What's your instrument panel look like? That's where the terminal strips usually go. Unless I misunderstood the issue.

Most panels need a revision and cleanup by this time, given all the new electronics since manufacture.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...-1-A-Novice%92s-Guide-to-Panel-Reorganization
Click to expand...

Christian, pardon me for not being more precise. All the wires that are presently connected to the battery terminals themselves, need to connect to the batteries before the main battery switch so the location at the instrument panel does not work for me. I see from your earlier photo showing 4 blade fuse connections on a common rail (connected to the battery terminal) might clean up my wiring somewhat but I already have invested in several Blue Seas double terminal fuse block (not inexpensive) so your 4 blade solution does not help much. I see from Bob's photo that he put the terminal block in the engine area and I guess I could duplicate that as well but I would prefer a location right adjacent to the batteries.

I do not need a very heavy wire to connect these terminal blocks because the wires that would go there are not heavy current leads, the largest is the 1 kW inverter for which I already have a Blue Seas 150A terminal fuse block. I have very heavy wires (1/0 gauge) going from both the starter battery and the house bank to the main battery switch. The heavy wire going to the main battery switch from the house bank is much larger than the house panel would ever need but in case I need to parallel both the starter and house banks (via a position on the main battery switch), I wanted the lowest voltage drop. So the wires to the extra terminal blocks need only be maybe #4 gauge, but again, "no room at the inn" i.e. in the existing battery compartment.

Do I need to do some surgery to enlarge that compartment, maybe make it large enough to move the starter battery in there as well?
 
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