Laminate or Dacron?

[rwthomas1]

I am in the process of spec'ing out a new 120-130 genoa for my E38. I have chosen to work with the local Haarstick sail loft. I have narrowed it down to either their cruising dacron crosscut or the triradial cruising laminate. I have visited the loft and seen examples of both the fabric and other used Haarstick laminate sails and I am leaning hard towards the laminate.

The laminate supposedly will outlast dacron with regard to shape by approximately 100%. Since the laminate is considerably more expensive this service longevity seems to make it worthwhile. On a fairly tender design like an E38 it would seem to make sense to pay more money for a sail that retains its shape longer as this will ultimately result in a more comfortable boat with less heeling, easier trimming, etc. over a longer period of time.

I did a search and didn't find exactly what I wanted to know. Specifically, how well do laminates stand up to coastal cruising use? Roller furling? Any extra care required? I am pretty anal retentive so keeping after small care details is no big deal however if these things are much more difficult to keep than dacron maybe I am not interested. I do not want to get into a discussion on different sailcloths and the nuances. Its a bit beyond me. I trust that when I buy a cruising laminate that is what I am getting. Haarstick claims that their laminates do not require any extra care than dacron.

Any thoughts?
Thanks, RT

 

[Geoff Johnson]

I have used my UK TapeDrive 135 genoa for four years and have found that it requires the same care as Dacron (except that it is more susceptible to damage from flogging.). The performance, however, is much better making it, in my opinion, well worth the extra money.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

No additional care to my knowledge either. Laminates can be suseptiblel to mildew if stored wet but so will dacron. The story I have been told is that dacron may ultimately last longer but will lose its shape much faster than laminate. The dacron sail may last for 20 years before it finally shreds itself from UV damage. The last 18 of those 20 years you will probably have pretty lousy shape. A laminate will have great shape for 5 or more years depending on use but will ultimately fail catastophically sooner than the dacron. Its a trade off between shape longevity and ultimate sail longevity. I also am a much bigger fan of tri-radial shape than cross-cut, but triradial is more labor intensive to design and build leading to higher cost. FWIW I am ordering a new laminate 150 for my E-38 today from Quantum. It is being built with Dimension CX6T (60%) and CX5T (40%). I have a main from them with the same material and have been very happy. There are some pics of the main on my rigid vang thread.

 

[CaptnNero]

enjoy the laminate now and the dacron later

Ted, from what you are saying it sounds like when upgrading to a cruising laminate it would be a good idea to store the dacron sails if they are in good shape for when the laminate starts falling apart and you have a suitable storage space. Then you are not as financially pressured into buying more laminate right away.

From the experience I had with a Doyle laminate headsail on our Pearson 27, going back to the Dacron after several years with the laminate would be a bit uncomfortable. We only had that boat two years, sold it in '99, and we still remember that headsail.

No additional care to my knowledge either. Laminates can be suseptiblel to mildew if stored wet but so will dacron. The story I have been told is that dacron may ultimately last longer but will lose its shape much faster than laminate. The dacron sail may last for 20 years before it finally shreds itself from UV damage. The last 18 of those 20 years you will probably have pretty lousy shape. A laminate will have great shape for 5 or more years depending on use but will ultimately fail catastophically sooner than the dacron. Its a trade off between shape longevity and ultimate sail longevity. I also am a much bigger fan of tri-radial shape than cross-cut, but triradial is more labor intensive to design and build leading to higher cost. FWIW I am ordering a new laminate 150 for my E-38 today from Quantum. It is being built with Dimension CX6T (60%) and CX5T (40%). I have a main from them with the same material and have been very happy. There are some pics of the main on my rigid vang thread.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

I have friends with 8 year old laminate racing sails that while no longer competitive sails they are still used for practice. These are not your more robust cruising laminates either. I believe you will get a pretty good life out of a quality laminate provided you dont flog it any more than you have to and you take it down over the winter etc. I would not be surprised if you got 10 years out of one before it started looking like the end was near. Maybe longer maybe shorter depends on how much you sail and how hard. 10 years on a dacron sail and you will definately be done with it. It may still be intact but I doubt you will be very happy with it's performance. I'm no sailmaker but this is the story I have gotten from all the sailmakers I have spoken with. The laminates while they will ultimately fail in a catestrophic manner will not do so without warning. You will know when they are close to being done. I personally would not bother saving the dacron sails for a rainy day. I would rather try to sell them on ebay or at Bacons in Annapolis or some other used sail broker. Take the money you get from the sail, put in it a nice CD for a few years and use it towards the next set, but thats just the banker in me talking...