We have a 1988 38-200. Our keel bolts have a build up of goopy stuff around the lower portion in the bilge. I looks like it was possibly some kind of sealant that oozed out when the keel was installed. Given the problems with release wax etc that some owners have had with their keels I'm wondering if this ooze is evidence of the keel having been "fixed" by a previous owner? Does anyone else have goop around their keel bolts? Especially anyone who knows for certain in came that way from the factory (or not)? I'll try to remember to get pics next time I'm there but in the meantime I'm hoping someone knows something... Thanks!
Keel Bolt Question
- Thread starter Ryan L
- Start date
Interesting, thank you... It's not a definitely recognizable substance but if I had to guess I'd go with 5200, 4200, etc. It's mostly dark colored now (black/grey-ish, not rust) if that's any clue? We have a dripless shaft so I doubt the darkness is from oil staining but I don't know. My worst case nightmare, but an unlikely scenario, is that a p/o removed the nuts, gooped around the bolts, then re-tightened. I doubt that's what happened (especially on the difficult access bolts) but having more examples from other boats would add to our peace of mind. Thanks again.
Anyone else?
Surely some more of you have seen your keelbolts?Any info is appreciated!
Nothing oozing out around them from the original build. Due to water seeping in around one of them I did have the keel dropped and rebedded about a decade ago.
FWIW, the factory guys did get some white gel coat on all the washers and nuts when they gel-coated out the center of the bilge.
Loren
Joliba
1988 E38-200 Contributing Member
The only important thing for you is to be certain that the keel is well attached and properly bedded without any leaks before you head off across the ocean. A good inspection at haul out should answer that if you are unable to verify that all 13 bolts are dry while in the water. Perhaps the keel root/keel junction can be inspected with a dive, but I'm not sure about that. Are the washers on your keel bolts rusty? They are often a different Nobility of stainless steel than the bolts and can rust sacrificially, sparing the bolts themselves until the washers have rusted away. Replacing the washers and retightening the nuts should be done with the boat resting on the keel, not with the keel hanging from the hull.
The visible part of the bilge is generally dry (except after rain...) but I can usually feel some water between the bilge liner and the inside portion of the keel sump when I dig deep enough into the limber hole at the forward end of the bilge. The water tastes kind of brackish but may just be dirty more than salty. The visible part of the washers and keel bolts have no (or very little) evidence of ruse except the hard to reach tiny keel bolt located far aft under the galley sink. If I had to guess I'd say the "goop" is keeping water from coming up from below the liner into the visual bilge but my concern is water trapped around the bolts between the liner and the hull if the goop was added from inside the boat rather than just overflow from the keel being bedded. Best case scenario is the goop was part of the keel bedding and the bolts are well protected... I tried to contact the original owner (we're the third) but so far no luck. Thanks for the reminder to closely inspect the keel/hull margin when we haul for paint next month (and to only tighten bolts at that time...) I'll try to post pics.
Cory B
Sustaining Member
Band aid?
Just a shot in the dark here, but maybe somebody caulked up the inside of the boat to "solve" a water intrusion problem rather than deal with it properly by dropping the keel and rebedding it? If you think that might be the case, you may want to consider dropping the keel.
We were a little suspicious of our keel bolts after we bought our boat and dropped the keel, and found severe keel bolt erosion that was not evident from the inside of the boat.
Just a shot in the dark here, but maybe somebody caulked up the inside of the boat to "solve" a water intrusion problem rather than deal with it properly by dropping the keel and rebedding it? If you think that might be the case, you may want to consider dropping the keel.
We were a little suspicious of our keel bolts after we bought our boat and dropped the keel, and found severe keel bolt erosion that was not evident from the inside of the boat.
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Joliba
1988 E38-200 Contributing Member
Pictures would be helpful. Your bilge is configured differently than ours. We have no bilge "liner" at all. If you have water in the bilge when you haul out, while the boat is in slings, you may see water weeping from the keel/hull junction if the joint is not good.
u079721
Contributing Partner
Well since I've been through this with our 1989 E38-200 I'll chime in. Originally there was no sealant visible underneath the keel bolt washers. But we did have a water issue, more than just rain water. I foolishly tried stopping the leak by removing the keel bolt nuts one at a time (while on the hard, of course) and added caulk under each washer. But since the entire keel-hull joint was leaking my caulk treatment didn't do much, and that next fall I had to have the keel re-bedded.
From what you describe I would be willing to bet that what you're seeing is someone else's attempt to stop water from coming in. The test of course is to see if the keel separates from the hull when hanging in the slings. I'm betting the aft foot or so will be separated at least.
From what you describe I would be willing to bet that what you're seeing is someone else's attempt to stop water from coming in. The test of course is to see if the keel separates from the hull when hanging in the slings. I'm betting the aft foot or so will be separated at least.
Thanks for the info. I'm sorry you had to deal with that... We had a keel issue with our last boat similar to what you describe. Because of that I looked at the keel/hull margin very carefully when our Ericson was hauled for inspection during purchase last year. No cracks were visible. I'll look closely again when we haul for paint in a month or so.
Update and potentially good news!
I managed to track down the second owner of our boat from some old maintenance forms left onboard (we're the fourth owner). He's an MD here in San Diego and purchased the boat when she was two years old from an engineer. Apparently the engineer was extremely anal about the boat during construction and would regularly visit the Ericson yard to make sure the work was being done to his satisfaction. The previous owner says he vaguely remembers the keelboat sealant being present when he purchased the boat but he's not certain.
He also reports the original bottom was poorly primed and was flaking off in chunks so he had the entire gelcoat sanded off and replaced with epoxy in 1998. He said he was at the yard during the process and would walk around pointing out where he wanted more added. He says the epoxy is at least 4mm thick and added a few hundred pounds to the boat. Although no glass was added I wonder if the epoxy might mask any cracks that would otherwise have formed? More likely than not it sounds like the original owner was on top of things during construction and simply spec'd the sealant along with a long list of other premium options (for example a tapered mast).
The PO said he still has photos from our hull being laid up at the factory. He's gonna try to find them for us. I'll post them if he does and I'll post pics of the goop on our bolts if I remember to take them next time I'm onboard.
I managed to track down the second owner of our boat from some old maintenance forms left onboard (we're the fourth owner). He's an MD here in San Diego and purchased the boat when she was two years old from an engineer. Apparently the engineer was extremely anal about the boat during construction and would regularly visit the Ericson yard to make sure the work was being done to his satisfaction. The previous owner says he vaguely remembers the keelboat sealant being present when he purchased the boat but he's not certain.
He also reports the original bottom was poorly primed and was flaking off in chunks so he had the entire gelcoat sanded off and replaced with epoxy in 1998. He said he was at the yard during the process and would walk around pointing out where he wanted more added. He says the epoxy is at least 4mm thick and added a few hundred pounds to the boat. Although no glass was added I wonder if the epoxy might mask any cracks that would otherwise have formed? More likely than not it sounds like the original owner was on top of things during construction and simply spec'd the sealant along with a long list of other premium options (for example a tapered mast).
The PO said he still has photos from our hull being laid up at the factory. He's gonna try to find them for us. I'll post them if he does and I'll post pics of the goop on our bolts if I remember to take them next time I'm onboard.
u079721
Contributing Partner
From what you describe, if indeed you didn't see separation or a crack, then it all sounds good. What you have is then just probably just someone's belt and suspenders approach. Adding caulk under the keel bolt washers sure can't hurt - but at the same time it won't really help if you had the type of separation we did. Time to move on and find something else to worry about!
Took some pics
Here are some pics taken by my phone. They show the forward-most bolt, one directly under the mast (the least accessible of the large bolts), and the "main" area with the easiest access. Anyone ever see any goop like this? (remind me to get that broken cable-tie next time I'm at the boat...)
Here are some pics taken by my phone. They show the forward-most bolt, one directly under the mast (the least accessible of the large bolts), and the "main" area with the easiest access. Anyone ever see any goop like this? (remind me to get that broken cable-tie next time I'm at the boat...)
Joliba
1988 E38-200 Contributing Member
The boat history you obtained and your previous observations of the keel root are very reassuring. From the photos it is clear that there has never been a leak issue. Our boat came with an untreated leak and the gel coat is fairly permanently stained by rust in the small scratches. The goop looks to me like black Marinetex that was packed around the nut. It appears to be above the level of the nut base suggesting to me that it was applied after the nut was tightened. Perhaps someone thought it might prevent the nut from unscrewing rather than as a leak sealer. Anyway, I concur that you have no problem.
Is there a report of a keel falling off an Ericson? I would think we would know if it has happened.
Never a one. However, lots of us have had an 80's production keel rebedded.
Loren
AlexLindsay
Junior Member
Torque value
Is there a specific torque value for the keel bolts? Specifically an '87 E34-2.
Is there a specific torque value for the keel bolts? Specifically an '87 E34-2.
If you put this string into a Google window... ericsonyachts.org keel bolt .
You will find some good prior threads and one even has a torque chart copy-pasted in from another web source (C&C owners) for the bolts.
And this excellent thread: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?5578-keel-bolt-torque-E-38
Loren
ps: Here's another very good thread:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6842.0/prev_next,prev.html#new
You will find some good prior threads and one even has a torque chart copy-pasted in from another web source (C&C owners) for the bolts.
And this excellent thread: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?5578-keel-bolt-torque-E-38
Loren
ps: Here's another very good thread:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6842.0/prev_next,prev.html#new
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Loren,
ericsonyachts.org keel bolt site:www.ericsonyachts.org
Curious, is that wording the most effective search construction? If so I'll adopt it instantly....
ericsonyachts.org keel bolt site:www.ericsonyachts.org
Curious, is that wording the most effective search construction? If so I'll adopt it instantly....