How many Ericson 30+ built?

[Seth]

No problem here

You are right-it could certainly be a logical deduction. Sorry if I came across in an overly enthusiastic way-all I was doing is trying minimize any potential confusion-we have enough of that already in our lives, don't we?

All questions here are good questions, and all are welcome to ask/post as needed, and we are here to help!!

Thanks, and let's go sailing!!

S

 

[therapidone]

The 30+ evolved from the 30-II in that the hull mold was used with minor modifications to the stern section, and the structure was changed (TAFG), but we used most of the old tooling from the 30-II to make a more modern 30 footer.

The 30 foot lineage as I know it is the original 1960's 30 footer (sometimes called a 30-1), the 30 and 30-II (Bruce King, outboard rudder boat with MH rig, which was used as the tooling for the 30+), there were some upgrades with the -II designation-mostly a tall rig I think, then the 30+ in 1979-...

Greetings Seth,

I have a question (that requires a long preamble providing the background for asking it) regarding your statement that the 30+ evolved from the 30-II.

PREAMBLE: In the fall, the Good Old Boat Regatta on the Chesapeake Bay includes a couple of races of good old boats. In order to keep out J-boats, etc., they have set a limit on the year of the design of the hull of any boat that wishes to enter the races. I'm pretty certain that the limit is set at 1975, but regardless of what year is actually used, I know that it precedes 1979 when the E/30+ production began; consequently, I have not tried to enter the GOB Regatta races. I need to point out that I'm not a racer--I only participate in one race per year--the 45nm, overnight Annapolis to Solomons race in mid-July...primarily for the big party all day Saturday but also for the cameraderie of being one of 100 - 150 vessels making their way down the bay, dodging freighter traffic and avoiding fish traps, crab pots, and shallow water in the dark. However, I would like to enter the GOB Regatta races just for the fun of it if there is any way I can stretch the hull design of the E/30+ to go all the way back to the E30 - II.

In looking at the specs for the E/30+ and the E/30 - II (outboard rudder design):
- the LOA of 29' 11.5" for each,
- LWL of 25' 4.5" for each,
- beam of 10' 5" for each, & the
- draft options (5' 10" full; 4' 0" shoal) for each,
it would appear that the hulls are of at least the same dimensions if not almost exactly the same shape/design.

NOW THE QUESTION: Do you think there is any chance that I might be able to make my case that the hull design for the E/30+ extends back as far as 1975 when the E30 - II was being produced and enter the GOB Regatta races this year?

Additional question: Does anyone know the years for each of these 30-foot model production runs? I'm beginning to think that the E/30+ ran from 1979 through 1987 (no evidence of its being produced beyond '87 as of yet) but am curious about the previous 2 models.

Regards,

Ed

 

[therapidone]

Boom, boom; out go the lights!

I think Spirit's boom is in the correct position (where the boom attaches to the mast is a fixed connection) yet is low compared to other sailboats. I've attached a pic that shows me standing at the wheel, the end of the boom almost in my face, and a dodger! We have to make sure that we've got the topping lift adjusted to clear the dodger even though the PO had the dodger reinforced at the point where the boom might rub against it.

The point of the pic is to show:
a) how low the boom is,
b) a dodger is possible--although my wife complains about how much she has to bend over to keep her head from hitting the dodger when she enters or exits the companionway, and
c) it is impossible (at least insofar as I can make out) to have a bimini on this vessel unless the boom were raised another foot or two.

Please ignore the wrinkles in the mainsail along its foot

Regards,

Ed

 

[Seth]

I'll try

Hi Ed,

It would be a tough case to make, although you are right about the hull shape.

But..The rudder is different, the rig is different, and the weight distribution is different-the first 2 items really do make this not the same boat. They both have different ratings under PHRF, AFAIK. I think the answer will be that this boat dates to 1979, not pre-75. I would try asking, though-disclose the differences and ratings up front, and if they are serious about promoting participation, they might let you in.

As far as production years go, the 30-1 from the 60's may have run to 72 or so, but I am pretty sure that the 30/30-II showed up 73-74. Martin King may have better input on this-Martin???? You are right about the 30+.

Regarding you pic-NICE!! The boom is certainly lower than many other boats, but does not droop into the cockpit-but if this what what our friend Greg was seeing then I was blathering about nothing-that is what they look like. BTW-Nothing wrong with those wrinkles!!!!

Cheers,
S

 

[Meanolddad]

Low Boom

Hi Ed
Thanks for posting the picture that shows what I was referring to. While searching for out current boat we looked at lot of boats and they all seemed to have more room under the boom. A couple of the Hunters I sailed on a couple of years ago the boom was so high it was difficult to put the sailcover on. I see with the wheel you are acually behind the boom, on a tiller boat you are under the boom. We do really enjoy our E30+. There is no way that I would trade the way Regalus sails for more boom clearance. We had a Ranger 22 almost 20 years ago and I seem to remember it having a low boom. I know I got clocked in the head at least once by that one. It also was a very fun easy to sail boat, though quick and a handfull racing under spinnaker when the wind was up.
You have a very nice boat and I do like your dodger and possibly next year will look into getting one made up.
Like I said it was more of an observation than a complaint.
Greg

 

[therapidone]

Low Boom/Big Boom!

Almost anybody I know who has been on other sailboats immediately remarks (read here: complains) about how low the boom is on Spirit (and, if they had the opportunity, E/30+'s in general) when they make their way into the cockpit.

I tell them that the boom is, to my knowledge, the only onomatopoetically named part on a boat...if it hits you, it goes BOOM!...and so do you For the English majors, that's usually enough to keep their heads down! For almost everybody else, I also have to provide the definition for "onomatopoeia"

In last year's overnight race, we were "dfl" in the racing fleet & I asked one of the guys who sailed with us why--given that we had done a lot better the year before. He suspected that it was because we had a 135% genoa and given that she's fractionally rigged and the winds were generally lighter all night than the year before, there just wasn't enough sail area to move her along. He suggested that I get a 155% genny as a new sail. However, we have an asymmetrical spinnaker which allows us to get to about 50% off dead-into-the-wind on a close reach (maybe even a few degrees closer!) & the way I figure it, if the winds are that light, that's the sail we'll use (however, it presents a real problem when it comes to tacking...I don't think it can be done w/ an asymm...I believe we'd have to get the wind behind us and gybe). But after reading how over-powered other folks' 30+'s are with bigger sails, I don't see any reason to blow $1,300 - $2,000 on a sail that I don't need...and since this is the only race we enter, I can't see getting all upset about where we finish even if it is "dfl".

My guess is that where you're sailing, you probably don't have to worry too much about light winds (7kts or less) most of the time...in the summer on the bay, if we get 5kts, we count ourselves lucky some days.

Regards,

Ed

 

[Meanolddad]

Ed
You are right about the 150. It is a great sail when the breeze is less than 7 knots. We usually get around 12 knots all summer and we would be sailing with a reef in the main to keep the boat sailing well. When we sail back through the local Hurricane gulch to our slip we are usually looking at 20-25+ knots. Our 150 does not roll up well at all so using the furler was pretty much futile. I found a smaller sail off a Pearson 30 that seems to fit the bill. Works out to about a 120. It is a little blown out, works pretty well anyway. The next one will probably be a 135 which will probably work out very well.
Your assymetrical sounds like a great sail, we have a symetrical that we have not flown yet. Usually it is just me and my daughter sailing and she is still learning so I am waiting for a couple good hands.
Cheers
Greg

 

[Seth]

optimal sails

As the race showed you, this boat (and ANY boat) is going to be underpowered in under about 10 knots True upwind with anything less than a 150-155% headsail. If you plan to race in these conditions, you NEED that headsail. That and something between 120-135% (depending on how much crew you can put out on the rail-more beef=bigger #2 genny) plus the A-sail will net you the ability to have nearly optimal sails up in 90% of the sailing conditions you will encounter.

You are right that a good A-sail will close reach-often up to 40 degrees apparent wind angle, but that is not enough for beating (upwind sailing). You will be a bit faster through the water than the guy with the 155, but his VMG to windward will be better, and he has the advantage of being able to tack. Gybing around the long way is a SLOW way to get uphill-especially in a race against boats who can actually tack.

Unless you only sail in SF Bay or Hurricane Gulch in the summer only, you will need a full sized genoa to be competitive. Both of those locales have light air in the winter, so an all-year boat that races needs the big sail.

Keep as much weight out of the ends as you can and as much weight on the windward rail as you can (when the breeze is over about 7-8 knots), and have a ball!

I would like to see what a light 30+ with a tiller could do in SoCal PHRF racing-I would think quite well if set up right-the tiller is one of the best features if performance matters-you can sit forward of the back end, sit on the high side so you can actually see the telltales and waves...all good stuff.

Remember, the good guys almost never steer from the leeward side!!

Cheers,
S

 

[therapidone]

One definite answer & one possible answer

Frank Langer started this thread wanting to know how many E/30+'s were built. This is only a possible answer. Spirit's serial number is 721. I have yet to come across anyone with a serial number higher than that. Given that the serial numbers for the E/30+'s began with 501 and assuming no gaps, that would mean that there were at least 221 of these built.

According to the document that I excerpted earlier about serial numbers for Ericson models, the 30-foot models & their years of production go as follows:

E/30 – I # 1 (1966) thru # 150 (1970)
E/30 – II # 1 (1977) thru # 47 (1979)
E/30+ # 501 (1979) thru #

Now, during the thread, I asked Seth if he thought the hulls for the E/30 - II and the E/30+ were the same design/mold. Here is the answer that I received from Bruce King via his wife, Pam:
bruce king <bruceking245@adelphia.net> wrote:
Hi Mr. Petrick,

Yes, Bruce said the same hull design was used for both the E/30+ and the E/30 II (except for the rudder). However, the original and earliest hull design for these boats is dated 1977. If I'm missing something here, just let me know.

Regards,
Pam King

So, the answer is it IS the same hull for both models. However, the reason that I wanted to know this was because I was hoping that the E30 - II was in production as of or prior to 1975. According to the info from the serial number document, they were only built from 1977 - 1979. I've attached the serial number document for anyone who has any interest.

If any member has an E/30+ with a serial number higher than 721, I think we'd all be interested in hearing about it.

Using Spirit's HIN (ERY30721J687), here's the breakdown on interpreting a Hull Identification Number (HIN) to help:
- the first three characters (characters 1 thru 3) indicate the name of the mfgr...ERY = Ericson
- the next two characters (characters 4 & 5) indicate the LOA of the boat...30 = 30 feet
- the next three characters (characters 6 thru 8) give the serial number of the boat...721
- the next two characters (characters 9 & 10) are either the date of certification (i.e., it is certified to be in compliance with all safety standards as of the first day of the month indicated in the 9th character) or the date that the building of this boat began with the 9th character equalling the month using a letter (i.e., A= January, B = February, etc.) and the 10th character is the year of the decade for the model...so Spirit's 9th & 10th characters are J6 = October of 1986,
- the last two characters = the model year of the boat...87.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Ed

 

[rwethereyet]

This is a bit off subject, but the information may be useful. I own a 32-200 and I believe it was one of the last built of it's kind, completed in 1990.

The HIN # is ERY32838E990

I thought the hull # of 838 may be of use on this subject topic.

 

[Allen Wood]

Does anyone know how many Ericson 30+ were built, and the first and last years in which they were built? I recently bought a 1984, hull #637, and am wondering where that fits in the building cycle for these boats.

Also, I have seen reference to "tall rig" among these boats, but the sales brochure doesn't list tall rig as an option--is there a tall rig model that's different from the standard rig on these boats?
Thanks for any information.
Frank.

I own a E-39 built in 1973 hull#85 if that helps you.

 

[chasandjudy]

This is a bit off subject, but the information may be useful. I own a 32-200 and I believe it was one of the last built of it's kind, completed in 1990.

The HIN # is ERY32838E990

I thought the hull # of 838 may be of use on this subject topic.

Justy my two cent worth, I'm finding this interesting . I own a 1986 E30+
1986 # 720 I race every Sunday all winter I had a new main manufactured two seasons ago the boom was made at 88 degrees from the horizintal, in order to accomadate a dodger and a can of beer during the cruising summer months (I take the dodger off in the racing season) I sailed
for the last 11 years with a 135 I have just bought a new 150 . It was like turbo charge I can hardly wait for winter racing season to begin. I also remove most of the cruising gear I have put drawers in (7) it keeps things a lot more seaman like . Well the wind is up , the sun is shining .see you on the water P.S. I sail out of Esquimalt Harbour every Sunday all winter if you want to crew (anybody) just phone me at 250 888 4503 . Who knows you just might be up here in Canadian waters visiting and what better thing to do than go out in a E boat.

Charlie Pash SV EDEN E30+ # 720 love this boat

 

[eknebel]

bimini can fit

I have a 1980 30+(hull 509) and agree you can fit a bimini(a small, low one). The Bimini is functional enough to have saved my life multiple occasions during August. We added a plastic mesh, that hangs downs on the side of the bimini. This cuts down on glare off the water, and can be moved to where it does the most good. This material is normally sold as venting fabric for the bottom of cushions, but is a amazing sun screen addition. Not exactly stylish, but function over form!
While the boat could have more "feel" with a tiller, the wheel allows for a tee cockpit, which is very functional for it's size.

 

[Norm]

All good questions

Frank-you have a great boat. The 30+ evolved from the 30-II in that the hull mold was used with minor modifications to the stern section, and the structure was changed (TAFG), but we used most of the old tooling from the 30-II to make a more modern 30 footer. The same thing was done with the 25+, but to a lesser degree. Not much was used from the old tooling, but until the 28+ showed up, it was the way we identified the new current models of the same length as older models. The 28+ was designed along the same thinking as the 30+ and 25+ that although there was never a straight 28 previously, we named it the + series. In reality, it was not as logical as you might have hoped. The straight 28 came later.

By the way, I have never, ever, heard of a 30-III. The first time was in the post in this thread. If there ever was such a boat, it must have been the latest version of this hull shape from PSC with only minor upgrades, but I do not think it ever existed as an E-boat. Certainly not in my time or the 10 years after I left, but was still in the industry and in touch with Ericson.

The 30 foot lineage as I know it is the original 1960's 30 footer (sometimes called a 30-1), the 30 and 30-II (Bruce King, outboard rudder boat with MH rig, which was used as the tooling for the 30+), there were some upgrades with the -II designation-mostly a tall rig I think, then the 30+ in 1979- MAYBE the + designation was dropped by PSC in the last years-similar to what was done with the 28+, which later became simply the 28 with minor mods. But no 30-III by Ericson.

Beyond some very minor changes, perhaps the traveler location, there were very few significant changes. They DID have it right from the get-go. The TAFG was good enough that it became the standard method for all subsequent E-boats, so I would say it works pretty well.

Build quality was good with a few lemons-but they have long since been sorted out (laid up on late friday afternoon-if you know what I mean).

Nothing special about the 30+ to watch out for in quality. She is very fast for a cruiser, close winded and powerful. This means she is a bit tender, and if you sail in winds frequently over 12-15 knots I would use a headsail of 110-125% as your normal headsail-this is too much for a 150% genny (upwind, of course). The narrow stern means less speed and comfort in HEAVY AIR reaching, but for day sailing or coatal cruising this is no concern, and as long as you get the sail down to the right size in these conditions you are fine. The only thing is that a similar sized boat with a more powerful stern section would be faster in these conditions..BUT not as fast upwind and especially in light-medium breeze-everything is a trade off.

The Ericson history, while spotty in parts, is better than most builders of the day. Columbia, Islander, Cal Yachts, etc. all had somewhat bizarre record keeping (we were just getting copy machines back then!) and marketing strategies-the marketing guys came and went, and so did some of the logic. Ericson did better than most.

You have a good, well documented (by industry standards) boat-enjoy!!

S

I have an 1985 E30+ with a cabin top traveler with a 3:1 ratio that requires winches to adjust. The boom is very low and the sail is quite large. I heard that the E30+ came in three styles with shorter higher placed booms and travelers in the cockpit. Has anyone else thought about raising and shortening the boom and getting the headsail changed to fit? I'm also planning to change out my traveler for a 5:1 ratio that can be managed without the winch. Any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[Seth]

The 30+ didn't really have different versions for the leech length & luff length of the mainsail, although a number of owners have done a variety of things, from just shortening the leech to keep the boom higher, to moving the gooseneck fitting higher up the mast and shortening the luff length. Of course you end up with a smaller mainsail, but if you sail where there is often more than 10 kts of wind, it won't hurt. From the factory the 30+'s all had the same mainsails. The 30-II did have Standard and Tall rig versions, but that was a masthead rigged boat with different geometry than the 30+.

The mainsheet from the factory was 4:1, not 3:1 so someone may have done some ill-advised mods. Still it was not enough purchase so using the winch is an option, but if it were me I would go with a 4:1 with a built-in fine tune. This is a standard configuration (Harken, for example), and is much more desirable than relaying on a winch to adjust the mainsheet tension. Like this:

Harken Gross-Trim/Fine-Tune Mainsheet System 4/8:1

Product Description Harken Gross-Trim/Fine-Tune Mainsheet System 4/8:1Description - 4:1/8:1 Self-contained systemLine dia. min. (in) - 5/16Line dia. max. (in) - 3/8Max. sail area - end-boom (sq ft) - 350Max. sail area - mid-boom (sq ft) - 275 Line not included.

www.googleadservices.com

This is one example, but it gives you the idea. Happy sailing

 

[Norm]

Justy my two cent worth, I'm finding this interesting . I own a 1986 E30+
1986 # 720 I race every Sunday all winter I had a new main manufactured two seasons ago the boom was made at 88 degrees from the horizintal, in order to accomadate a dodger and a can of beer during the cruising summer months (I take the dodger off in the racing season) I sailed
for the last 11 years with a 135 I have just bought a new 150 . It was like turbo charge I can hardly wait for winter racing season to begin. I also remove most of the cruising gear I have put drawers in (7) it keeps things a lot more seaman like . Well the wind is up , the sun is shining .see you on the water P.S. I sail out of Esquimalt Harbour every Sunday all winter if you want to crew (anybody) just phone me at 250 888 4503 . Who knows you just might be up here in Canadian waters visiting and what better thing to do than go out in a E boat.

Charlie Pash SV EDEN E30+ # 720 love this boat

I have a 1985 E30+ #697. How did you determine 88 degrees for your boom and did you need to shorten the mainsail leech? My boom seems to be really large and low, I thought raising and shortening it would help, especially since I mainly cruise, going to Mexico next year.

 

[Norm]

Boom, boom; out go the lights!

I think Spirit's boom is in the correct position (where the boom attaches to the mast is a fixed connection) yet is low compared to other sailboats. I've attached a pic that shows me standing at the wheel, the end of the boom almost in my face, and a dodger! We have to make sure that we've got the topping lift adjusted to clear the dodger even though the PO had the dodger reinforced at the point where the boom might rub against it.

The point of the pic is to show:
a) how low the boom is,
b) a dodger is possible--although my wife complains about how much she has to bend over to keep her head from hitting the dodger when she enters or exits the companionway, and
c) it is impossible (at least insofar as I can make out) to have a bimini on this vessel unless the boom were raised another foot or two.

Please ignore the wrinkles in the mainsail along its foot

Regards,

Ed

My E30+ would never fit a dodger. I'm debating whether raising it would be a good idea. The gooseneck has 8 bolts that can be tap&drilled at a higher location on the mast. I would also need to shorten the boom and have a new sail made, which I need to replace anyway. What are your thoughts?

 

[bigd14]

My E30+ would never fit a dodger. I'm debating whether raising it would be a good idea. The gooseneck has 8 bolts that can be tap&drilled at a higher location on the mast. I would also need to shorten the boom and have a new sail made, which I need to replace anyway. What are your thoughts?

A former owner raised the boom about 9 inches and had a new sail fit on our boat to accommodate a dodger. They also added a solid vang with a gas shock that prevents the boom from dropping onto the dodger.In the first photo you can just see the row of bolts where the old boom location was. Not sure why you would need to shorten the boom?

 

[Norm]

A former owner raised the boom about 9 inches and had a new sail fit on our boat to accommodate a dodger. They also added a solid vang with a gas shock that prevents the boom from dropping onto the dodger.In the first photo you can just see the row of bolts where the old boom location was. Not sure why you would need to shorten the boom?

Thanks. Do you know if the boom was shortened?

 

[Sean Engle]

Greetings Seth,

My full HIN is ERY30721J687...with the "721" portion being the serial numbers of interest. This would mean that the #'s did extend into the 700s.

Regards,

Ed

We show the starting production in 1979, with a HIN 501. So, if you have #721, we're looking at least 220 and likely more finished hulls of this model.

As for why the production history is so sketchy, it's related to the number of times the company changed hands, and then how the models were introduced (if at all) by the new owners. The screen shot below is from the spread sheet I developed for the COO project, and will be made available later this year.

//sse