Help! Newby w/Plumbing/Engine Issues.

[leshthomas]

Hi folks-

My wife and I bought a 1976 29' Ericson recently. The survey showed few problems, we had a compression test done (excellent), and we sailed it a few times with no problems. Then we tried to fill the water tanks. There was a cap that said "water" near the bow on the starboard side. We filled it untill full, and then to our horror, looked inside the boat to find 6" of water on the floor. We pumped it out, and then dried the engine block out with a fan. When we took the boat out, the engine didnt want to run under load, so we limped back to the marina, and scoped the engine out. The oil was no longer black, it was milky. Also, when I tried to run the engine later to heat the oil for removal, the hose that goes to the coolant reservoir, which is wrapped in fiberglass or something, was smoking. So we shut it down and are unsure what to do. We dont know how water got into the oil--the only thing we can think is a blown head gasket or (gasp!) a cracked block. The engine was supposedly a rebuilt atomic 4 freshwater cooled with 60 hours. It ran beautifully for weeks before this.

So, thats the engine problem. Any ideas?

The plumbing is more complicated. The sink wasnt draining, but when I removed the hose below the sink, it spit water at me untill all the nasty sink wastewater was gone, but then it kept spewing freshwater--and I dont know from where! I followed the pipe from the sink, and it appears to go into the hull on the starboard side--so where is the sink wastewater going, and where is the freshwater coming from? Is the wastewater pumped out of the boat by a freshwater gravity feed or is the sink wastewater being pumped into our bow water tank? There is also a cap on the aft starboard side that says "water" , but we cant find a water tank for it. We also cant locate the bow water tank we filled. Anyone have any ideas or schematics for the plumbing for a 29 foot Ericson?

Thanks!

Les and Margarite Thomas
29' Ericson "Opus"

 

[Shadowfax]

The sink waste water is going overboard. I assume you are located in fresh water as you say the water comming back at you is fresh. That water is from what you are sailing in, not the fresh water tanks. Close the thru hull and the water will stop

 

[jkenan]

I don't think things are as bad as you may think they are.

The A4 does not have an oil seal in the front of the engine. If you had 6" of water on your floor after trying to fill a non-existant water tank, chances are the water level rose above the flywheel center, which is the front end of the crankshaft, and entered into your engine oil there. Change the oil at least three times, running it for a few minutes between each change to mix whatever old oil left in the pan with the new. This will insure you get as much water out of the oil as possible. Don't be surprised if after the first two oil changes, the oil is still milky white.

The smoke you mention is nothing more than the dampness in the fiberglass insulation around your exhaust pipe exiting your engine, which probably happened in the same instance. Running the engine for a while will dry it out.

You also probably have water in your carburator, which will make certainly cause hard starting and running issues until it works itself out. You will need to pull all your plugs and squirt a little bit of Marvel Mystery Oil into your combustion chamber, aimed towards the pistons (aim to the starboard side into the spark plug). This will prevent any rust from occuring which could sieze your engine. The exhaust will be smokey from this the next time you run it, but only for a short while.

If you have a water fill in the foredeck, chances are the Previous Owners (PO's) had a flexible water tank under the V-berth, which they took with them when they sold you the boat, leaving a hose connected to nothing. The original water tank should be under the quarterberth next to the engine on the starboard side, unless the PO's took that as well.

Shadowfax is right about the sink drain. The bottom of the sink is just above the waterline, so when you remove the hose and it is lowered, water will come in.

One final comment on the A4 Compression: the designed compression is around 90 PSI. If your compression is over 100psi, you likely have a lot of carbon build up in your combustion chamber creating artificially higher compression, which does not help you, and if so, you should have your head hot tanked. If your compression is lower and the engine is recently rebuilt with new rings, it probably just needs to be broken in so the rings form to the cylinder walls. Normal break in time is about 50 hours or so. Check with Don Moyer at moyermarine.com if you have other concerns. He is passionate in his pursuit to educate people on keeping these engines running, and is tireless in his efforts to help.

Good luck.

 

[Sean Engle]

Welcome!

Hi, umm - whoever you are... (please introduce yourself)...

Anyhow - welcome to the site, and a belated congrats on the boat purchase. Don't worry, things like this often happen when you first purchase a boat, and while it can seem a little overwhelming, you'll learn the ins and outs pretty quickly, and then it won't be such a big deal.

For instance - from your description of the hose beneath the sink - typically such a connection is a drain - that drains the sink outside the hull (below the waterline). If you disconnected that drain hose (at the sink end) and then lowered it below the waterline - the water that came in was probably from outside the boat...

Also - when you first purchase a boat, you really want to go slowly with the systems - check them out one at a time - and have a friend around (or you run around) and check how things are working when you first load up tanks, etc. I would also have suggested having a mechanic check the engine out (and a rigger go over your rig) if you're not really aware of what it is you're looking at. I did both of these things when my boat was new - it was fairly inexpensive to do, and both guys told me what they were doing, what it all means, etc - very useful.

My other suggestion is that you go to the 'Spec & Documents' section of this site, then the 'Document Index', scroll down, and download the E29 Owner's Manual (if you don't already have it). You should go over it fully, and then go over your boat and look for changes the POs may have made, etc. We're expecting an A4 manual here soon - and if you cannot wait, I'm sure we can locate one for you sooner...

You also need to know where all of your through hull valves are - and make sure they all work - incase you ever have a real emergency (flooding-type emergency). You should have a set of wooden pegs on board, kept near by these valves in the event of an emergency...

Oh - and on the flooding of your cabin sole: I would strongly recommend you get a dehumidifier (the kind you put in your basement - one of the big ones) and put it on your boat - NOW.

Put it on a high setting, and close the boat up with only a minimum amount of outside ventilation. Drain the thing all the time - or run its hose into your sink drain (if it's draining). Run it until it stops sucking water out of the air in your cabin. With 6" over your cabin sole, you're likely to develop a mold problem if you don't dry the boat out completely.

Finally, I would also suggest you check out one of Don Casey's books as well as Nigel Calder's big bible on maintenance, etc. Good references are critical to keeping your boat is safe operating condition.

The advice the others are giving you is good - follow it. Then go over your boat with a fine tooth comb and let us know how you're doing...

//sse

 

[leshthomas]

Newby update:

Thanks for the advice, everyone! With a lot of help from a fellow Ericson owner (Thanks Harold!) we changed our oil three times, and now the oil seems to be free of water: so far so good. The sink still doesnt drain like it should, but it works. Hopfully my wife and I will have everything figured out and operating smoothly before next years Ericson owners meeting! What is the normal operational temperature range for an atomic 4 E-29? Last night ours was runnng at just over 200 degrees F, which seems high to me.

-Les and Margarite Thomas
"Opus"
Bainbridge Island

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Sounds like your on the right track with the A4 and the sink but what's the story with the fresh water fill. Was it a broken hose to the tank? Was the tank cracked? Just curious. Sorry you had to go through all that. I had my share of disappointing discoveries after the purchase of my boat. The worst was 2 years later when my little Yanmar crapped out because of a poorly installed exhaust system. Welcome to the not so cheap hobby of sailing.