heavy weather tactics E 38

[rbaron]

un hanked storm jib

Mike,
As you can see at the start of this thread, we too have a E 38-200. Since beginning the thread we have added a 3rd reef point to the main.
I am very curious about your experience using a smaller jib just supported at the tack and the head with no hanks or sleave. Will this sail setup allow you to point? I assume you really put some solid winch asssisted pressure on the second Jib halyard in order to stiffen the luff. We have a 70% jib [the wj from our old Cal 34] which we could rig similarly. I love the idea of not having to pull our regular headsail from the roller system in order to use the 70% sail. But doesn't the sail sort of "sag" off. I am wondering if a short sleeve on the 70% jib would improve things [assuming it would slide over the furled regualar jib]. Your thoughts?

 

[Joliba]

unhanked jib

RBaron,

You are correct, when we raise the storm jib we crank it up tight. It still sags off a bit, but not much more than it would hanked to the sagging forestay. We can still point reasonably well, enough to get somewhere to weather. In those storm conditions it would be very difficult sailing while pointing like the Ericson does in normal conditions. Footing off a bit probably gets you to windward faster anyway because waves in that situation will kill way quickly. Steering while pointed that high would be like threading a needle.(This would be a different situation in a fully crewed well-trimmed racing boat.) 23 year old shorthanded cruising boats are better not being pushed that hard.
The old Cal 34 sail would be too big to fly with a free luff for going upwind in very heavy air. It would also be too big to manage on the foredeck while raising and lowering. However, it would be a great sail in 25-30knot winds...perhaps gusting to 35. You could have a sailmaker fashion a closeable sleeve or several straps designed to act as giant "hanks" to slide up and down over your roller furled jenny. There are storm jibs sold like that in the back pages of sailing magazines. You would have to bring your genoa jib sheets forward to the tack and hook them around those 2 hooks on the stem fitting (Ahh! that's what those hooks are good for) to get them out of the way.
Now, I have raised a sail like that 70% with a free luff as a second jib for running downwind in the Trades. The big jenny remains in the forestay slot or hanked, and the the second smaller jib is raised free. The jibs are poled to opposite sides (or one can be sheeted to the outboard end of the mainsail boom. The loose sail can be quickly dropped in the case of an approaching squall. But that is for running and not in heavy conditions.
Good luck.
Mike

 

[rbaron]

more unhanked jib.

Mike,

Good points about using the cal 34 working jib as a heavy weather sail. I think what we will try is using a pennant and placing this sail on the furler when we anticipate heavy stuff. That way we can reduce it if needed with just a turn or two. That combined with three reefs in the main seems a worth trying. Indeed we may also put three removeable "strap" hanks on this sail so that a second option would be to raise it "over" the already furled sail using our spinnaker halyard. Thanks. Bob b
Mike[/QUOTE]

 

[Morgan Stinemetz]

Heavy weather stuff

I don't for certain know if we violated any principles concerning overloading the rig, but a few years back, after getting skunked by no air or wispy air on three successive Thursday evenings, my crew (of one) and I went out into Tampa Bay. There was little wind, but off to the southwest was a big, black squall line that was coming our way. We had the working jib up and I was about to hoist the main and decided against it. In fact, we never took the sail cover off. When the wind got to us, we were off! We could see where we were and where we were not because of the Egmont Key light at the mouth of Tampa Bay. The rain came a little later. What we got out of the evening was an E-ticket ride. WSI registered 45 knots. Port rail was under water. If we got too much heel, we just cracked off a bit and everything was okay. My E-27 has about a 21-foot waterline, but we were seeing 10 knots regularly. It was just a working jib, but we had 90 minutes of some of the most glorious heavy weather sailing I've ever had. After the squalls passed through the wind went with them. We had to motor home. So, I posit the question, what's wrong with just a working jib in heavy weather? It gives you all the speed you can handle and less than half the effort. Accidental gybes are never a factor. Worked for me.

 

[Charles]

Sailing to weather in 30 kts in Santa Barbara Channel

We had E38-200 Hull # 231 (sold in 2005). Being sometimes caught in short steep chop in late afternoon coming back from Catalina (to Ventura) with 30-35 kts between Anacapa and the shoreline at Pt-Magu-

With a large size harken furler, 100% jib with a high clew led through a block on the outer track, we triple reefed the main, dropped the traveler to lee side, and sheeted the main as flat as possble. If that was too much, we luffed the jib and took in 4-5 wraps on the furler. The boat was balanced, but we sometimes dropped to 4 kts (VMG). Boat was deep draft model.

Charlie

 

[rbaron]

35 knots in E Santa Barbara Channel

Charlie,
Your report sounds sensible. We had our sailmaker put in a 3rd set of reefpoints last year for just this possibility. We also run a 100 % jib on our E 38-200 set on a roller furl. So far we have not yet needed the 3rd set, but for sure the time will come this fall. Bob Baron Beyond Reason Ventura.

 

[Sven]

For the survival branch of this discussion ...

I was sold on the JSD solution until my father sent me a copy of the Pardey's book "Storm Tactics Handbook: Modern Methods of Heaving-to for Survival in Extreme Conditions, 3rd Edition".

We ended up buying a 12' sea anchor for survival from these guys http://www.seaanchor.com/

We also picked up a 4' drift anchor for just resting out in the wide open.

Now back to the sail balance discussion



-Sven

 

[Seth]

Nothing wrong with that plan!

I don't for certain know if we violated any principles concerning overloading the rig, but a few years back, after getting skunked by no air or wispy air on three successive Thursday evenings, my crew (of one) and I went out into Tampa Bay. There was little wind, but off to the southwest was a big, black squall line that was coming our way. We had the working jib up and I was about to hoist the main and decided against it. In fact, we never took the sail cover off. When the wind got to us, we were off! We could see where we were and where we were not because of the Egmont Key light at the mouth of Tampa Bay. The rain came a little later. What we got out of the evening was an E-ticket ride. WSI registered 45 knots. Port rail was under water. If we got too much heel, we just cracked off a bit and everything was okay. My E-27 has about a 21-foot waterline, but we were seeing 10 knots regularly. It was just a working jib, but we had 90 minutes of some of the most glorious heavy weather sailing I've ever had. After the squalls passed through the wind went with them. We had to motor home. So, I posit the question, what's wrong with just a working jib in heavy weather? It gives you all the speed you can handle and less than half the effort. Accidental gybes are never a factor. Worked for me.

Most modern boats do pretty well with just a headsail up. Especially boats with beefy, non-bendy rigs like the E boats....The only potential problem could be on a boat with a very bendy and light weight rig, where not having mainsail up could be an issue.

On the 27 and the like, this is very safe and easy to control way to deal with nasty weather.

S

 

[Charles]

sailing with headsail

Most modern boats do pretty well with just a headsail up. Especially boats with beefy, non-bendy rigs like the E boats....The only potential problem could be on a boat with a very bendy and light weight rig, where not having mainsail up could be an issue.

On the 27 and the like, this is very safe and easy to control way to deal with nasty weather.

S

Our first E was a 1980 30+, in 1985, San Pedro. The joys of a 5 year old boat ! She had the original smaller rudder, which was updated to deeper in '81 or '82. She also did not have a lower bronze rudder bearing glassed in (which the later ones also did). I learned all about this from trying various ways to deal with weather helm. The best 'to weather' configuration I found was a 135 or 150 genoa. With either one (hank on), the boat would take off like a rocket and grove all the way to the west end of Catalina, no sweat. The helm was totally unloaded. So unloaded, that I could hear a clunk once in a while. We hauled, dropped the rudder, and glassed in a lower bronze bearing.

Roger on the 7/8ths rig without main up pumping in a head sea. The main will stabilize the mast column for sure. In the case of the 30+, take a double reefed main along for the ride, and let the 135 genoa do all the work.....

Close reach...shake the reefs out.