Halyard

[EGregerson]

The halyard (probably original) in my '87 E34 needs replacing, according to the surveyor; some around the marina say to replace the ss cable with 100% rope, saving $$$ and the wear and tear on the sheaves. Will i need to replace the sheaves; installing a wider type? Even if the old ones accommodate the wider rope, should i probably plan to replace them anyway?

 

[Chris Miller]

check for...

you're sheave probably is built for the original rope size, with a groove in the middle for the wire to ride in. Best options are to either have it turned or replaced, but as long as you double check it for burrs or other sharp edges the original rope size should be fine through the sheave. For example, if you had a 3/8ths to wire rope halyard, all 3/8ths should work fine if the sheave doesn't have any sharpies on it. Then, the next time the stick is down, replace the sheave.
Just my 0.02...
Chris

 

[Seth]

Yes, and...

I think Chris is correct, and in general you will be happy with the (proper) rope halyard.

You dd not say which halyard it was, but assuming it is the main or primary headsail halyard, do yourself a favor get the better grade rope. A standard yacht braid will stretch too much, and you will find yourself chasing halyard tension-taking up a bit more each time it stretches, or even worse, living with insufficient halyard tension.

Mention this as a concern to your halyard vendor, and step up and pay the premium for the good stuff-you will be glad.

It has been a while, but I guess the "premium" is about 30% over the lower grade rope-anyone have something to add??

Class? Anyone? Buhler?

S

 

[Loren Beach]

Handing you a Line...

My '88 Olson (Ericson) with its Kenyon spar had wire-to-rope halyards when we got it. After finding meathooks in a couple of 'em we replaced all four.
The alloy sheaves on our boat are a U-shape groove and work fine for either rope or wire.
I did find that 3/8 was fat enough to cause a little friction at the masthead sheave(s) and so went with 5/16. Strength, per se, is not the issue... the 5/16 T-900 is rated at about 7K #.
:nerd:

They all hold fine in the original clutches, but this is certainly the smallest line size you could get 'em to clamp onto. In a perfect world I would probably have a thicker tail sewn on -- maybe even go with a hi-tek line of 1/4 inch...

FWIW: get rid of the wire.
We even replaced our check-stays with line.

Cheers,
Loren

"Ferris, you're my Hero!"

 

[rwthomas1]

I don't understand all the hubbub about all-line halyards. Other than the obvious "meat hooks" on wire whats the big deal? My wire/rope main halyard was new when I got the boat and I have no complaints. The headsail halyard essentially stays up all season and the wire exposed at the top of the masthead is a whole lot more resistant to UV, chafing, etc. than a line would be. I have one all-line halyard on the boat and this appears to be a spinnaker setup but I have never used it. I can understand the spinnaker halyard being all line as it is handled more than any other but why bother otherwise? That T-900 is not cheap all it takes is one missed chafe area and you just blew it. I'm sticking with wire until I hear a really good reason not to. RT

 

[Loren Beach]

Halyard Rationale

Hi Rob,
No real hub bub or need for anyone to change if they do not want to.
I would note that wire halyards only became common because of technical shortcomings of the rope alternatives...
Low stretch was required and only ss wire filled the requirement, but with a spendy splice to a rope tail in order to have a way to handle it and have something for winches and cleats to work with.
For an all-wire halyard you used to see a wire reel-type winch on a mast. There are still some of these on older boats and they work fine, albeit with proper precautions for working with the winch handle.

As the rope technology/material greatly improved and the price dropped, there was the additional advantage of reducing weight aloft. Note that if you take into account the weight of all the wire in your halyard, twixt deck and mast head, and find the halfway point, that is quite a bit of extra weight at a point many tens of feet above your center of ballast. For a boat like mine with a six foot draft, removing, say 20#.... 25 feet above the deck, is like adding maybe several times that much in lead at the bottom of the keel.

None of this is really earth-shaking, and I am probably describing a nano-knot of speed to weather, but still.....


I replaced my four (approx) 110 foot halyards over 5 years ago for about $1.00 a foot, on sale. T-900. Not all were bought at the same time -- worst ones were replaced first and then a few years later the others.

The changeover looked like a good deal, both financially and technically, for me. For anyone else, it is truly a case of "YMMV."
"Different ships, different long splices." as the old timers used to say.

Regards,

Loren

 

[CaptnNero]

watch your nanos

...and I am probably describing a nano-knot of speed to weather, but still.....

...

Hey Loren, don't discount it too much. You know, a nano-knot here, a nano-knot there and pretty soon you're talkin' a micro-knot
or then again maybe not

Actually I was considering replacing our worn out wire and rope halyard with some of the new high tech stuff this spring when all of a sudden Viking in Annapolis went out of business after 30 years and there it was, the last one in the store, a perfect wire and rope halyard for 50%. So I now I need to rig up the eye on the end of the wire for the new one.

I am glad that this discussion came up since before I saw the deal on the wire/rope halyard I was thinking about the same sheave issues that have now been addressed.

 

[hcpookie]

As for the chafing, I recall someone posted a real slick way to avoid that, by using messenger lines when the sails are stowed, thus letting you remove the working lines for storage purposes, and letting the cheap (and disposable) messenger lines take all the UV abuse. A few more minutes' work when packing up for the day, but seems like a real nice way of "fixing" the UV problem.

 

[rwthomas1]

Actually the chafing I am refering to is the chafing under load conditions as the new line passes over all those spots where the wire has been laying and wearing for years. Pulling the halyards out every time just won't work if you are using roller furling. Wire/rope works for me for now. Maybe in future I would consider changing but its way, way, way down that list. I would like a new: chartplotter, sails, portlights, radar, etc. RT

 

[WhiteNoise]

one other point about rope/wire

Rope/wire definately has stretch advantages but in addition to the obvious "meat hooks" and other chafe issues, along with the weight concern, I have one other concern...more of a precautionary measure. In the event of halyard wrap with a furling system, rope will cause less damage to the headstay.

I've heard a handful of horror stories where the halyard wrapped unknowingly, the headsail was furled with the aid of a winch handle, also unknowingly cutting the headstay enough that when the headsail was taken down, the strain on what was left of the headstay (now without the aid of the halyard) snaped, and the rig fell. This was a deck stepped mast and an amateur move but something no one likes to see.

 

[Geoff Johnson]

I spliced a new Stayset-X main halyard over the winter and ran it up the mast only to discover that it was about 10 feet shorter than the old one. No problem, now I attach the shackle to a shroud cleat attached to the aft lower shroud about eight feet off the deck. I has cured my problem of the halyard wrapping around the spreaders before I can run back, take up the slack and winch the up the main. Of course, I won't be using the shorter halyard to hoist any bodies out off the water, but then that's their problem.