Halyard Wrap Troubles

[Gmilburn]

Hi all,

I have a E29 with a harken roller furler headsail. The previous owner had said he had problems with halyard wrap and to be aware of it. First off, I had a devil of a time getting the sail down as I had thought the wire halyard had come off the mast head sheve, but after I finally got it down, I could see the problem. The halyard is deformed by the previous "halyard wrap" problem in two spots. I had one old salt tell me that with enough tension that it would straighten itself out--but I don't buy it. So my question is how does one replace a wire halyard WITHOUT taking the mast down or climbing the mast. I am very nervous about doing anything with it--without a pre-planned game plan! Suggestions?

I've attached a photo to show you how bad it is. Does it deserve replacing?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Rob Hessenius]

Gmilburn~

Cut off the "funked up" part of the halyard and take along a hand swage and the proper size s.s thimble and start over. Or climb the mast a few times or drop the telephone pole.

 

[Loren Beach]

Gotta change that angle...

It's not a choice at this point. You need a new halyard. I would suggest all-line, with a low stretch modern line line T-900 or the current equivalent.
Once a ss wire halyard gets kinked it stays kinked.

Sorry have to suggest that you spend some money, but there it is.

Also, to prevent this from happening again, like the very next time you use the furler with the new halyard, install a halyard retainer, which you can get from Harken.
I will attach a picture of the one we use for our Harken Unit two furler.

To remove the old halyard, I would suggest stitching the end of the new one to the end of the old rope tail and just running it on through. This is presuming that the old wire is joined to the rope tail with a smooth splice, like the little picture I just attached.

Best,
Loren

 

[Gmilburn]

Thanks Loren and Rob,

I'm glad that you confirmed that the halyard will never "stretch" the kink out.

I like the idea of changing the wire halyard to rope. Do I need to replace the masthead sheve? Is there a primer somewhere on splicing rope to wire?

I have seen and read about the halyard "retainers" to keep the halyard close to the mast--but again--dont want to climb the mast unless I have to--or brib someone with a fifth of rum to go up (after the job is done!).

Thanks!

 

[Randy Rutledge]

On my 29T the sheaves are cut to handle rope and wire.

 

[u079721]

Another option?

Loren's suggestion to mount a halyard retainer is the tried and true solution, but on our 38 there was a more simple option. Our masthead was pretty basic, and had just three sheaves, with no spinnaker block. Two of the sheaves were up higher, on either side of the crowl covering over the end of the headstay, while the third was down lower, underneath the headstay. (Darn I wish I had a photo!)

Standard practice was to use the center lower sheave for the headsail, and to use the higher port or starboard sheaves for spinnakers or a second jib. But this way the geometry of the set up was perfect for halyard wrap. The PO of our boat had done it, and had destroyed his halyard, and included a replacement with the boat when we bought it.

Trying to figure this out I went up the mast and studied it, and noticed that if you hoisted the headsail using one of the upper sheaves, and positioned the upper swivel just a couple of inches from the top, that it was no longer possible to get halyard wrap - there just wasn't room.

The trick to this is to get the upper swivel positioned at the right spot, and to do that you need to use a pendant at the tack of the sail of the right length. With a bit of experimenting and some binoculars I found that 8 inches of rope tether worked perfectly for me, so that's the way I set it up, and used it that way for ten years with no problems.

Of course I don't know if anyone else's Ericson is set up this way. If all of your sheaves are mounted below the headstay fitting this will not work, but if any are above and to the side it could be worth a try.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Another simpler solution is to put a dyneema strop or pennant on the tack so you get full hoist. A few measurements and you can sort this out, probably cost $5 for a foot of dyneema.

Nothing wrong with that kinked wire halyard either, just watch out for meat hooks. Once loaded all the kinks will be gone. Sure a halyard restrainer, nice vectran core halyard, re-tuned sheaves etc. is nice but its also expensive. Wait for a more important job like new standing rigging to change out the wire.

I'm nornally in favor of this sort of stuff but guys its July! Time to go sailin not time to work on the boat. Spend the money on Rum. BTW Sailor Jerry and Ginger beer make one hell of a Dark and Stormy. Esp with a splash of roses lime juice...

 

[Eric B]

Halyard restrainer

It's not a choice at this point. You need a new halyard. I would suggest all-line, with a low stretch modern line line T-900 or the current equivalent.
Once a ss wire halyard gets kinked it stays kinked.

Sorry have to suggest that you spend some money, but there it is.

Also, to prevent this from happening again, like the very next time you use the furler with the new halyard, install a halyard retainer, which you can get from Harken.
I will attach a picture of the one we use for our Harken Unit two furler.

To remove the old halyard, I would suggest stitching the end of the new one to the end of the old rope tail and just running it on through. This is presuming that the old wire is joined to the rope tail with a smooth splice, like the little picture I just attached.

Best,
Loren

Hi Loren,
Your attached picture of the Harken halyard restrainer that you used is the exact model I have purchased for the job at hand also. I have a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind.
Did you use tap and machine screws, or rivets, and how is it holding up? I have prepared to install with screws.
Also, I have not yet taken the restrainer up the mast yet, but at the botom of the mast, the six holes for the screws do not quite sit flush and perpendicular to the surface of the mast.
I know that the mast is a bit narrower at the top, just wondering if you had any issues in this regard.

Thanks

Eric​

1988 E 32-III
#747 Liliana

 

[Loren Beach]

Hi Loren,
Your attached picture of the Harken halyard restrainer that you used is the exact model I have purchased for the job at hand also. I have a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind.
Did you use tap and machine screws, or rivets, and how is it holding up? I have prepared to install with screws.
Also, I have not yet taken the restrainer up the mast yet, but at the botom of the mast, the six holes for the screws do not quite sit flush and perpendicular to the surface of the mast.
I know that the mast is a bit narrower at the top, just wondering if you had any issues in this regard.

Thanks

Eric​

1988 E 32-III
#747 Liliana

Chicken that I am, I had a rigger friend go up there while I provided the winch cranking gusto.
I honestly do not recall which fastening scheme he used, but do believe that they were machine screws drilled and tapped. This was about 20 years ago, so my recall is sketchy.
I do recall that it took one trip up the mast and that there were no issues otherwise.
Loren

 

[bgary]

fastening scheme

I refurbed the halyard restrainer on mine earlier this year - different model (schaefer rather than Harken) but same idea.

Good-quality marine-grade (not Home Depot) fasteners, drilled and tapped, and bedded appropriately (Tefgel or Duralac).

 

[Christian Williams]

The pennant idea is certainly easy to try.

Here's Harken on the need for their own product:

http://www.harken.com/uploadedFiles/Product_Support/PDF/4410.pdf

 

[e38 owner]

I use a pendant and the spinnaker halyard. Seems to work fine.
I may add one of these. A friend seems to like it. Halyard deflector.
http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=17603&taxid=544

 

[Eric B]

Thanks Loren.
The first time I ever went up a mast was just couple of months ago. I really, really, really did not want to, but my volunteer backed out...
Actually, once I got started, it wasn't bad. Gear fear was the worst part (fear of gear failure), especially when you are just hanging there and not holding on to anything. Looking at your boat from up there is pretty cool, and the view!

Next trip, hopefully this weekend, I will be installing the restrainer, and maybe a couple of steps near the top.


Eric
1988 E 32-III
#747 Liliana

 

[Eric B]

I use a pendant and the spinnaker halyard. Seems to work fine.
I may add one of these. A friend seems to like it. Halyard deflector.
http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=17603&taxid=544

Yes, I am familiar with that, and it is absolutely the easiest way to go. Unfortunately, FWIW, my rigger carries all of the options in his store, and he told me that the Harken #944/945 restrainer works the best...

Eric
1988 E 32-III
#747 Liliana