Halyard Hitch On NE Ropes VPC

[GrandpaSteve]

I bought NE Ropes VPC for a new halyard (replacing rope to wire). I want to know if a halyard hitch will hold my jib shackle until I learn to do a core to core splice. I did not realize VPC needed a core to core splice until after I got it. I have not done any splicing, but starting out with core to core seems a little intimidating.

 

[Tom Metzger]

I bought some NER VPC rope for my main halyard this fall. I had never done a core to core splice either. The NER peddler I talked to questioned my sanity when I suggested using a knot. He just pointed out that splicing VPC was easier than splicing StaSet X. He never said if a knot was safe. Having now spliced both I concluded that he had drunk too much of their Kool-Aid.

I used the Sampson guide rather than the NER guide because it avoided burying the cover which seemed like the main difficulty in the splice.

http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Splice Instructions/DblBrd_C2_Eye_Splice_WEB.pdf

Give it a try with a piece of spare cheap double braid you have laying around. BTW, I would never do it in the presence of the grand kids. D-I-L doesn't approve of my language when under stress.

 

[GrandpaSteve]

Thanks for the encouragement Tom. I do intent to learn the splice, but if the knot is not safe I will have to have a rigger do this one. The rope cover on my wire to rope jib halyard has worn through in a couple of spots.

 

[GrandpaSteve]

Tom - after taking a moment to read the Samson instructions, it doesn't seem too difficult. Thanks I will give it a try.

 

[Ian S]

GrandpaSteve, what has failed to be mentioned here is that once you put a load on any double braid line you will never get a good splice in it. I have worked as a rigger and I assure you if you load up that line it will be a major PITA. if it can be done at all.
This is the primary reason you hear people all the time say that they just cannot perform an eye splice. Truth of the matter is most people are perfectly capable of executing a good splice but they are not using brand new fresh line.
They are practicing on used line which nobody can do! even the most experienced rigger! Once that cover and core has been tightened up and the fibers have been seated / set its all over. this includes one hoist of the halyard.
Splicing VPC is relatively easy, Just use the NE or sampson step by step guide and follow it to the letter. Setting the splice without a winch and a good length of line will be the most difficult part as you will have difficulty milking the cover back over. Lastly do not forget to tie a figure 8 about 8' down before you start to you will have a mess. I don't know why but this very first important step seems to be the most overlooked.

Good luck! Cant. Ian

 

[bgary]

+2

1 for it being incredibly difficult to splice double-braid that has already taken a set. When I ran my rigging shop, I set the price of a splice in used line to be slightly higher than the price of a whole brand new halyard. Seemed to get the message across.

And 1 for the figure-8 knot. It is to keep the core from coming too far out of the cover and making it much more work to "milk" the cover back in place over the splice.

 

[Loren Beach]

More about those evil Knots

When I replaced the four original wire/rope halyards on our boat over a decade ago, I went with T-900. I did review the cautions about using a knot rather than the stronger splice. In order to be able to launder those lines in the future and then reverse them, I decided to used a knot - but did try to use one that had the least loss of strength. The rationale was/is that these very high tech lines have a strength of about 7K# in the 5/16" size that we used. Even assuming the worst, a reduction by half seems inconsequential.
This seems like a situation where, truly, "YMMV".

I guess that having a halyard take that sharp turn over a smooth ss shackle bale seemed OK to me because our prior boat came from the factory with dacron halyards secured close to their ss bales with one turn over and then fastened with an aluminum swage to the standing part. This made for a secure "un knot" and never caused any trouble for the decade we sailed our Niagara 26. We sailed it hard, although campaigned it in only two full racing seasons during our ownership.

Note the Hinterhoeller method of the swage termination and my nowadays use of a knot has the advantage of letting the shackle get close to the sheave and not jam in the sheave like a longer buried splice tail. That was really my concern all along -- if not for dealing with that long and fat "bury" I would certainly go with a "stronger" splice.
Link to the thread about halyards and knots.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?12284-Halyard-Shackle-Knot-questions

Regards,
Loren

 

[Shelman]

I also prefer a knot and I go one step further by preferring that the knot to be tied directly to the headboard with no shackle when used on the mainsail, on the jib I have to use a screw shackle to attach to the roller furler.
I really only detach my halyards once a year when my mast comes down so its not a frequent hassle. sometimes less is more.

 

[GrandpaSteve]

What I learned

OK, what I've learned here is:

• I can probably learn to splice
• Halyard knots are OK, with or without shackles
• If I use a knot, I'd better forget about splicing that rope in the future

I think I'm going to order some fids and extra rope to practice on - I assume the core to core technique will be that same on low tech double braid as it is on the VPC.

Thanks everyone for all of your input. I like to do as much as I can myself. A rigger replaced my main halyard with VPC the first year I had the boat, and he assured me my sheaves and shackles are good to go (and he could have sold me anything at that point). He is a great guy and I have work for him in the future, but I think I should be able to handle my running rigging.