Grabrail; remove, refinish and rebed

[Sven]

La Petite's grabrails (on deck) need some attention. We plan to strip them of the flaking varnish and go with teak oil.

I'd like to re-bed them at the same time to start the incremental re-bedding process for all the deck hardware.

Two questions.

1/ Are the acorn nuts on the inside of the cabin truly what holds the grabrails on ? With 10 of them per rail it should be plenty, but I want to make sure there isn't some hidden attachment between the nuts, the headliner, and the deck itself.

2/ Any personal preferences regarding rebedding compounds ?

As usual: Thanks !


-Sven

 

[Bob in Va]

grabrails

Yours is the first 23 I have heard of with grabrails, teak or otherwise, so they were most probably added by a previous owner. 3M-4200 is good for bedding around screws - don't tighten them up that last half turn for a day or two. Also, if you remove the rails, you get a better seal by countersinking a chamfer around the holes in the deck fiberglass (easy does it!) - then the bedding compound forms a sort of recessed o-ring around the fastener. Probably a good idea to add stainless fender washers to the acorn nuts to spread the load.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

I am refinishing the grabrails on my E 38-200. I removed them from the boat. They were held on by stainless wood screws into the deck and bedded with polysulfide. I would rather through bolt them using threaded inserts in the grabrail side but dont know how much of a PITA this will be. The wood screws were countersunk and plugged so I can re plug but I dont know how access is going to be from the inside. Guess I need to go look... The thought of a few #10 wood screws and some bedding compound being the only thing holding these guys on it a little disturbing, but I would never rely on any grabrail to save my life either... While were at it any prefences on varnish for exterior teak? I'm a fan of Epiphanes but am open to suggestions from others.

 

[Randy Rutledge]

I am refinishing the hand rails on my E 29 T which has a cored deck and through bolted inner and outer handrails. Have you given thought to drilling the holes oversized from the top through the core but not the headliner layer. Fill the hole with epoxy filler and re-drill the original hole through the filler this will form a sealed path prevent water from reaching the core and give a more firm bolting for the rail. If your rails are not through bolted you could remove a bit more of the core (a sharpened end of an allen wrench in a drill will work to remove core around a hole. cut the short end to desired length and place the other end in the drill and start at a slow speed) and enlarge the filler plug area and thread the filler for fastening the rail without thorough bolting the rails.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

I looked yesterday and it doesnt look like getting to the inside to t-bolt will be too easy. Headliner would need surgery. Thoughts are that I will do something like you mentioned by clearing away core and using epoxy. I am thinking of adding threaded inserts that I could then use a countersunk machine screw from the top then plug the holes like orig. This way I would have a better attachment than #10 wood srews, but it is a lot more work. I am tempted to just reinstall the way they were and used copius amounts of good bedding compound, or maybe the dreaded 5200....

 

[NateHanson]

For exterior varnish I prefer Cetol. It's not quite as pretty as Epifanes (which I agree is unbeatable for a "bright" varnish), but it just lasts so much longer than Epifanes and is quicker to apply.

 

[hcpookie]

Deja Vu - I was planning to do this very project as my first New Year's project

My E27 handrails have no acorn nuts inside, so I'm guessing wood screws.

The threaded insert sounds like a really good idea! Seems like the stuff from the hardware store wouldn't take *that* much extra work... aligning them may be the hardest part. The benefit of a more sturdy anchor would make them worthwhile. Is there a specific product you have in mind?

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

In your case I would try and through bolt them. I found these threaded screws at West Marine that look like small carriage bolts but instead of being a make threaded bolt it is a hollow female threaded bolt. Has a phillips head and fits nearly flush. Would look much nicer from the inside that acorn nuts.

As for the varnish I have so little wood on this boat that I want it all to look as good as possible. Making covers from sunbrella for the grabrails...

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Thanks for making me think. Hcpookie you said aligning might be a problem. I had been worried since I will be drilling a 3/16 hole in a 1/2 plug of epoxy. I have the alignment figured out now. use masking tape or duck tape to mask around the work area. before drilling the bigger hole mark an x on the tape forming a crosshair site for the alignment on the top then when on my boat with through bolts holding inside and outside rails I will take a slinder drinking straw and place it in the headliner hole and align it in the center of the crosshairs on the top and epoxy around it leaving a path for perfect alignment to drill the 3/16 screw hole.

Hope I remember this when I start this project.

Don't forget to countersink around the screw hole to alow room for the sealant to form a thicker seal and seal the threads to the epoxy. I am thinking butyl rubber sealant it is like chewing gum, its weakness UV is not a problerm on this application.

Has anyone used a clear urithane automotive finish on wood? They are designed to withstand the sun and weather I just dont know it they would hold bonded to wood.
I admit I have a power boat a 1980 Mastercraft which I panted with dupont DAU automotive paint and clear coat (deck and hull) ten years ago. No wax and little care and it looks new after ten years, lots of sun and weather. It also does not grow freshwater slime on the hull just a bathtub ring that wipesoff with a wet hand . I have even considered this for the bottom of my E29 it should be fast and on the power boat prop wash at 45 MPH doesn't burn it off. Crazy I know but on fiberglass above water it last great and will be the paint for the above water when I do the job in a year or so.

 

[Art Mullinax]

Rubber inserts.

Don't try to use the expandable rubber inserts. It was a waste of time, money and effort. After removing them I had 10 ea 1/2" holes in the cabin top...

 

[jmoses]

Grab Rails

My grab rails on a 1972 E-35 were bolted to the cabin roof with nuts that were seized BADLY! Not to metion there is no access to the nuts from the inside. I ended up using a hole saw to gain access which didn't help any as the nuts were one with the bolts.

I ended up removing the bungs and drilling off the heads on the machine screws - all 20 of them!

I ended up making new rails which were an inche higher so I would not scrape my knuckles on the non-skid.

In addition, I added interior rails that were thru-bolted to the exterior ones.

Bedding compound? I have found 3M's new 4000 UV to be pretty good

Finish? I'd stay away from oil as it only is a dirt magnet. I have had good luck with 4 or 6 coats of Cetol Light followed with 4 coats of Cetol gloss. I will get one year out of it before I need to recoat.

John M.

- Picture #1 = New rail installed (higher by 1")
- Picture #2 = New thrubolts to hold interior rail (no interior rail before)
- Picture #3 = Interior rail installed, bolts require cutting and then barrel
nuts will be installed to tie it all together.
- Picture #4 = All finished with new exterior and interior rails!