Ericson 30+ Reefing

[mjsouleman]

Hi Fellow Ericson owners,

My first year with Discovery is complete, my first year with a sailboat is complete.

I am not an experienced sailor and I need advice on winds 14-18 knots.
discovery is a shallow draft keel (4 ft) with a fractional jib carrying a 150/130 (?) genoa

She overpowers at 14 knots and begins weather helming at 13.

She could use a better captain and I could use advice on handing 12-20 knot winds.

mjs

 

[Christian Williams]

You know, it's really simpler than people make it.

Just reduce sail as needed. First furl the genoa some, until you don't like the shape. Then reef. Then another reef.

Wind speed isn't the factor when not racing. If the boat heels a lot, reduce. If weather helm increases, reduce. If the guests look green, reduce. If you;re feeling lazy, reduce.

A huge factor is ease of reefing: set it up so you can do it without thinking, hestitation, or pain and suffering.

A full discussion of your reefing system might be of interest, and there are experts here.

 

[TakeFive]

Reef early and often.

Typical generic advice is first reef at 15 and second at 20, but that is a somewhat simplistic approach.
In practice, as the wind builds, I'm heeling more then 20°, and starting to see some weather helm,
I'll start to depower and flatten the main by tightening the main halyard, the outhaul, maybe add some vang tension,
move the traveler to leeward. If I have the genoa up I'll furl it forward of the mast, maybe move the cars up to get a nice flattened curve.
My wife likes a flat boat and I don't have the stamina to fight weather helm for hours on end. It's a sailboat. What's the rush.

I have a cutter rig so if the wind is over 25 I furl the genoa and hank on the staysail. With staysail and 1 reef in I can maintain a decent speed but lose a lot of pointing ability. Staysail and 2nd reef really slows the boat down. If the wind is over 30 I'm not going to be out there.

 

[Loren Beach]

You know, it's really simpler than people make it.

Just reduce sail as needed. First furl the genoa some, until you don't like the shape. Then reef. Then another reef.

Wind speed isn't the factor when not racing. If the boat heels a lot, reduce. If weather helm increases, reduce. If the guests look green, reduce. If you;re feeling lazy, reduce.

A huge factor is ease of reefing: set it up so you can do it without thinking, hestitation, or pain and suffering.

A full discussion of your reefing system might be of interest, and there are experts here.

Well Stated.
While most of these boats had a decent reefing setup installed when new, that was decades of time ago... and now that old gear and lines are beset with unintended friction and difficulty.

Given the large main on your boat, I would guess that you need a reef when the true wind goes over 14 kts or so.

An aside about racing (or anytime you are really trying to wring the most extra nano-knots out of a boat) -- when racing we always put up enough sail area to drive the boat well in the lulls and then de-power sails and play the traveler enough to keep us in control in the puffs.
The other 98% of the time we put up enough sail area to have easy control in the puffs and just put up with a little speed loss in the lulls.

Both options are fun, but most of the time you only want enough sail area to drive your boat to a decent hull speed and maintain good control. That's where the Fun Zone is!


Loren

 

[Frank Langer]

The Ericson 30+ is a lovely boat. We've enjoyed ours for ten years and won't give her up until we have to. We do a first reef at about 18 knots and a second reef at 22 knots, both after first furling our 125 head sail about half. I have sailed in over 30 knot wind and been comfortable with this arrangement. The boat can usually handle much more than the captain and crew can tolerate.
It also takes lots of practice going out in increasingly stronger winds to develop your confidence.
Also, the previous poster was right in emphasizing the importance of halyard tension, backstay tension, boom vang, traveler, out haul, mainsheet tension, correct position of the job sheet cars. There are good books on sail trim that cover all this and it makes a huge difference to how the boat sails.
I hope you continue to enjoy your boat--sailing is an art that takes time to learn and each boat is a bit different so it takes time to figure out what works best for you.
Frank

 

[woolamaloo]

Before I bought my 30+, my experience was mostly crewing for races. We literally never reefed so I really didn't have a good understanding of how and why. I made the mistake of not even rigging my reef lines my first season with my boat. On this forum I'd often see people say they reef to reduce heel to keep the "commodore" happy. I want everyone - including the commodore - to have a good time, so I rigged my reef lines in the second season and it made a huge difference. Sure, having the rail in the water and feeling the pull of the weather helm is fun - for a little while. But when I've got 40-50 miles to go, it's just not practical or comfortable. Coming from race boats, I was worried that I'd loose too much speed when reefed. It just hasn't turned out that way. A double reefed-main with a little genoa out in 25 knot winds is less stressful for everyone on board than 18 knots with the rail in the water - and you can still make close to hull speed when things are trimmed right. All the advice from the above posts is good advice - as usual around here. If in doubt, reef.

Jim
Woolamaloo
1985 E30+ Hull #685

 

[Christian Williams]

One interesting factor is that we all have big genoas nowadays, and, Mjs, if yours is approaching a 150 overlap, that's big.

They often work fine downwind in a nice breeze, but to windward the same genoa overpowers the boat. And we often are taken by surprise when just heading up 30 degrees--hey, it's really blowin' now!

A wonderful eye opener is to sail our boats with a non-overlapping headsail. It turns a cruising boat into a dinghy. Tacks are easy, no dragging all that flapping junk around the mast. The boat prances, as if off its leash.

Here's is a short video of what I'm talking about--"Joys of the 90-percent jib."

For me--tastes and boats vary--the heel in this video is the maximum I allow. Any more heel makes weather helm, which is just the rudder acting as a brake. I prefer the same amount of heel in 10 knots as in 30.

Video here.

 

[Rocinante33]

MJS,

There is a lot of good advice here. I would add one comment. When you reef your Genoa on your fractional rig, if it behaves like mine, don't expect a lot of relief from the healing or the weather helm by that step alone. With the fractional, you will need to reef the main to really get the boat back on her feet.

 

[Loren Beach]

Main-ly Speaking

MJS,

There is a lot of good advice here. I would add one comment. When you reef your Genoa on your fractional rig, if it behaves like mine, don't expect a lot of relief from the healing or the weather helm by that step alone. With the fractional, you will need to reef the main to really get the boat back on her feet.

So true. And what gets lost in translation on threads about reefing, is that fractional rigs have both a lot of sail area in their mains, and (!) a lot more sail area up high. What with wind gradients that area up above the forestay sees more pressure than the wind force closer to the surface of the water.

We sailed a 3/4 fractional rig boat for ten years before changing to the masthead rig on the Olson. Our former Niagara 26 had a main sail that would do justice to most 30 footers. Bringing the CE downward with a reef was a key factor when the true wind got above 15. Also, when not racing with more crew bodies, I always used the Lapper jib (about a 105, IIRC).

Related subject: main sail shape. With a large main sail, you really have GOT to flatten it as the TW rises. As the sail ages and stretches, get it recut. At some point in time, put a new main on and do not skimp on quality. That big main is your "main engine".

On a positive note, the numerous sail shaping controls for your main are usually available in the cockpit area and let you really make changes as the wind rises or falls.
OTOH, changing lead on the genoa involves some tense times on the low-side, whilst maintaining your footing on a sloped and wet deck.

Cheers,
Loren

 

[mjsouleman]

Ericson Sailors are the best

Eric, et. al.

I read and hear what you are saying. I hear a lot of experienced sailors giving great advice but as a novice, Eric's advice sounded like the best.

I feel like I lose control at 13-14 knots with main sail and Genoa full out. I had tried pulling the Genoa in until it was even with the main but still didn't feel in control with winds at 15-16. I will repeat this effort but this time bring the main sail to the first reefing ring (mine only has one reefing ring).


Everyone is correct, the Ericson 30+ is solid and I've had her out in 22 knots, scared Shiiiii... less. but she felt solid. This is definitely a captain with little experience
owning a beautiful and solid boat.


My thanks to all and I will practice reefing the main before going out again.

MJS

 

[Emerald]

Eric, et. al.

[snip]


My thanks to all and I will practice reefing the main before going out again.

MJS

and I'll add another thought in line with this - much easier to shake out a reef set at the dock that you didn't need than find yourself in a pickle needing it later and trying to put it in with the world moving under your feet :0

 

[mjsouleman]

There are alot of Salts out there,

Thanks for the advice.

Why is it that you need to practice driving for a few months before testing for a car license. And you have to practice for 20 hours before they let you single fly an airplane. With a sailboat any fool (speaking about myself) with a few dollars can buy a sailboat and be off with no training.

I even sailed flying Scotts for 2 years before getting my Ericson... different feel, different mechanics...

MJS

 

[bgary]

Oregon and other states as well.

I recently went through the WA-state required boater-education course. Well, "went through the course" might be an overstatement. I created an account on Boat-US, paged through the mandatory material and then passed the test.

I was dismayed by two things: one, how diverse the information was (from "how long should you run the blower before starting an inboard gas engine" to "point to the place where the impeller is on a jet-ski"), and two, that I now have a card that says I have passed a WA-state safe-boater course, without ever (to their knowledge) having set foot on a boat, let alone demonstrated any practical skills.

As "education", I think it's a good thing. But as "preparedness", I think we can do better.

/drift

 

[eknebel]

As always, a lot of good advice. I have a shoal draft sister ship in md as well, and while a solid boat, the shoal keel likes a reef of some type around 15knots( earlier with old blown out sails). Reef either furling headsail, or main, and it keeps the admiral happy, making the boat under control. It is quite a bit of work to haul the 4:1 mid boom mainsheet in after a gust, try raising the traveler to windward in a gust to put more twist in the main to depower it. About the best upgrade I did was to put a 2 speed harken mainsheet system in( 4:1/16/1 purchase). it makes it easy to release the 16:1 and trim it back in after the gust.

 

[csoule13]

A quick update to this. MJS and I took Discovery out in light winds yesterday to practice reefing the main on the water. The one thing that we both found confusing is that as presently set up, you can not get the both rings around the horns up by the mast. With the lock in place to keep the slugs in the slot on the mast, the sail piles up too high.

After shaking this out and enjoying some light-ish winds on a reach, things picked up to 10g12-14. Since we had the boat well trimmed and balanced, it was much easier to make small adjustments than to chase.

It was a great last sail before we prep her for a winter on the hard. Rebedding the keel, sanding and repainting the bottom are going to be our first time projects for the winter. God help us all.

- Chris

 

[eknebel]

That's great that you reefed the main in light wind, and then it built up! it is normal that you only hooked in one side of the reef to the gooseneck hook. See link below for a general sequence of events for reefing.




http://www.cruisingworld.com/seamanship-101-reefing-main

 

[Christian Williams]

Chris,

If you meant that the sail piles too high on the track to connect the reefing clew, it is easy to make a longer "dog bone."

Just obtain two stainless 2 or 3-inch rings, and loop Spectra between them. My third reef dog bone is 10" long.

 

[mfield]

dog bone

If you meant that the sail piles too high on the track to connect the reefing clew, it is easy to make a longer "dog bone."

The removal of the mast-gate and the bottom two slugs has been addressed in many other threads and up to now I have ignored it because it involved sewing rings to tape, adding metal plates, etc. The idea of using loops of Dyneema is interesting, don't you find the rings rattle on the mast when unreefed. Do you have any advice on a knot for the slippery Dyneema? I think I could use a new-soft-shackle safely.

I did add a spinlock to main halyard and it helps significantly lowering the sail enough to fiddle around with the cringles on the hooks. It also lets me hold the halyard and use the winch to pull in the reefing line.

 

[Christian Williams]

They don't rattle. My stainless rings were $4 each (it's possible to spend $25 each).

I don't even use Dyneema, just a scrap of Dacron line. What will a foot in length stretch under load, doubled? A quarter of an inch?

And they are a highly sophisticated upgrade, compared to the two-shackles-on-a-string faux dog bone they replaced.

 

[csoule13]

Chris,

If you meant that the sail piles too high on the track to connect the reefing clew, it is easy to make a longer "dog bone."

Just obtain two stainless 2 or 3-inch rings, and loop Spectra between them. My third reef dog bone is 10" long.

Winner winner chicken dinner. I'd kill for a pic of this set up. Adding this to the list of off season projects, along with the cam on the mast for the main halyard(thanks for the blog on photos on that!)