E39 winch upgrade to electric winches?.

[jdmgfx]

I am singlehanding my boat and getting older as I will turn 75 in December. My old Barrient wenches still work but I am going electric. Maybe Lewmar or harken and I am not sure the sizes I will need to replace my old wenches. Anyone have any suggestions on this?

 

[Loren Beach]

Wench? Winch?

I am singlehanding my boat and getting older as I will turn 75 in December. My old Barrient wenches still work but I am going electric. Maybe Lewmar or harken and I am not sure the sizes I will need to replace my old wenches. Anyone have any suggestions on this?

I am about your age, but would afraid of injury if trying to operate younger "wenches" .

Or, did auto spell check change your wording?


If it's a "winch" are you talking about, are your replacing your primaries or all of your winches?? There is the install to consider, with the wiring runs and added breaker. Cost of the winches is nothing to sneeze at either.

 

[Christian Williams]

Is there even one active member here with an electric winch on his boat?

Anybody?

 

[toddster]

Someone locally has a pair of electric Lewmar 55s listed on Craigslist. I didn’t pay too much attention but I think the asking price was more than the cost of my boat.

Some people seem seem happy with the Milwaukee drill-based “electric winch handles” I’ve got some tools in that size and it seems to me that it takes as much effort to wrNgle them as to turn a winch handle. But maybe they’ve worked it all out.

Oh, I just did a google search and it looks like there are at least two new electric handle options on the market. Still... losing a cheap winch handle overboard requires a three or four syllable curse. Losing one of those babies would require some real creativity.
I’m sure you’d keep it on a leash or something though.

 

[jdmgfx]

I am about your age, but would afraid of injury if trying to operate younger "wenches" .

Or, did auto spell check change your wording?


If it's a "winch" are you talking about, are your replacing your primaries or all of your winches?? There is the install to consider, with the wiring runs and added breaker. Cost of the winches is nothing to sneeze at either.

Yes winches. The two primaries for my head sail. Also a smaller one to control my main sheet and raise my main from inside the cockpit. I think that a electric wench handle is as much trouble as a hand crank when changing tack in weather.

 

[Loren Beach]

Which Winch?

http://www.seldenmast.com/files/1452845336/597-205-E.pdf

I believe that we have had four of this brand of jib track nstalled in our little marina in the last two years. The patented track end support assembly is really nice.
Given that all of the Ericson's I have seen have easily-driven hulls, a non-overlapping jib (with the multiple vertical battens that we have on our 97%) might be the best solution for most everyday sailing.
Your E-39 has a large fore triangle, so there is a lot of sail area there.

Also expensive, but perhaps no more expensive than the whole electric winch conversion of the primaries.

Friend of mine does have a winch stud for his 28 volt angle-drill motor. It powered my 210# up our mast with ease. No way would I want to try to handle it while tacking the boat, under way.

Interesting discussion for all us aged Vikings.
:0

Also, reference the earlier thread concerning jibs:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...lf-Tacking-Jibs-anyone/page3&highlight=selden

 

[Christian Williams]

a non-overlapping jib (with the multiple vertical battens that we have on our 95%) might be the best solution for most everyday sailing.

That's my take on it, too. Or rolling up a luff-pad genoa to 90 percent, which I often do. Just simplifies daysailing, visibility, short tacking--like having a dinghy again.

Even with a Tides sail track, the main halyard is my workout. I jump it at the mast, then deal with the pile of slack at my feet, and the fouls, then crank the luff tight. Often involves some panting, since it gets raised as a crowded jetty looms and usually a fast-paced hoist is required.

I wouldn't mind an electric mainsail winch at all.

However, the motors on these things are very large--usually one horsepower minimum, with a reduction gearbox.

That stuff would hang from the cabin ceiling on my boat. So even beyond expense, electric winches on an old Ericson are a nonstarter for me.

Harken conversion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YbuNbSCDAo

Lewmar prices: https://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/category/2-Electric-Winches.html

How an electric winch unwinds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLHW6eRTKJY

 

[gadangit]

I can see an electric winch for the main halyard. One area that I think I'd try first before investing in an electric winch is the Tides Strong Track. Our main is probably slightly lighter than a 9 oz dacron main, but Lisa can hoist the main by herself at the mast. I can pretty much pull it up from the cockpit before winching up the last bit of luff tension. I only recommend the strong track because the motor is going to hang down in a very awkward spot.

There is gobs of room for the electric motors under the jib primaries. We were out in 15-20kts of wind yesterday with our 95% jib and I can attest to the difficulty of sheeting in the headsail. Our 130% is darn near impossible sometimes when trying to go close hauled with any kind of breeze.

I have two points of caution with electric winches:
1. Sailmakers and riggers absolutely love them for the broken parts and torn sails that come from no feedback on the amount of force being applied.
2. Two of the very best racer/sailors in our area have had separate accidents with electric winches. One lost a few fingers and the other suffered some damage to his hand/arm. Both instances were just a moment of inattention. These winches are very powerful and unforgiving.

I'm interested in what you come up with.
Chris

 

[supersailor]

Strong track good! I have it in my E-34. There is a bunch of friction in the blocks leading to the winch on the cabin top. Raising the main at the mast is easier by far. I installed a pair of cam cleats below the halyard exit blocks so I could easily do this. The two speed primaries and halyard winches make sheeting fairly easy, just a little slow. Before getting electric winches, I would take a good look at the available batteries on board. The stock batteries are way too small for the load that electric winches place on them.

A cheaper alternative would be to befriend some younger people who like to sail who will act as your automatic winch grinders. I'm glad I'm not as old as you. I don't turn 75 until April.

 

[alcodiesel]

"You make me feel so young, you make me feel as tho' spring has sprung..." thanks guys. 61 next week.

 

[supersailor]

Age is relative. Although, with the disaserious year I've had medically this year, I may have to disagree with myself.
Gadangit, It sounds like your primaries are too small. I have Barient 27's for primaries which are a little oversize and have not had to strain too much even in 40kn of wind. The low speed is slow but wonderful.

 

[jdmgfx]

I can see an electric winch for the main halyard. One area that I think I'd try first before investing in an electric winch is the Tides Strong Track. Our main is probably slightly lighter than a 9 oz dacron main, but Lisa can hoist the main by herself at the mast. I can pretty much pull it up from the cockpit before winching up the last bit of luff tension. I only recommend the strong track because the motor is going to hang down in a very awkward spot.

There is gobs of room for the electric motors under the jib primaries. We were out in 15-20kts of wind yesterday with our 95% jib and I can attest to the difficulty of sheeting in the headsail. Our 130% is darn near impossible sometimes when trying to go close hauled with any kind of breeze.

I have two points of caution with electric winches:
1. Sailmakers and riggers absolutely love them for the broken parts and torn sails that come from no feedback on the amount of force being applied.
2. Two of the very best racer/sailors in our area have had separate accidents with electric winches. One lost a few fingers and the other suffered some damage to his hand/arm. Both instances were just a moment of inattention. These winches are very powerful and unforgiving.

I'm interested in what you come up with.
Chris

All the points you made above are correct. My head sail is a9oz 130 and I can usually raise it hand over hand except the last couple feet. The winch that I now have for control of the main sheet is over a cabinet that should have more than enough room for the motor as it now is almost empty.
By the way- Thanks for the information and help you gave me on my rudder last year. It worked out great and my control has improved greatly.

 

[gadangit]

Gadangit, It sounds like your primaries are too small.

I agree! Not sure the model Barient, but they are 44x in the slow direction. We generally have Lisa do all the heavy lifting and hoisting while I strain myself at the wheel. She was driving when we tacked this weekend, so I was forced to do the hard work. I tried to keep my complaining to a minimum. I kid of course. All the complaints about grinding in the headsail have always been during a race when our sail reduction plan was keep the headsail up and reef the main. All you can do is keep rotating crew. We have since hung up our racing gloves, so tacking is now a leisurely event with lots of luffing if I'm driving and lots of complaining if Lisa is driving.

Speaking of, we did have an opportunity to put some 3 speed Barients on the boat this year that came off a J-44. I'm certain this would allow for some leisurely grinding in of the largest headsail in any condition. What about that instead of electric? I think in the end it would be cheaper and less maintenance long term. I test fit them, I think it would work with some structural fiberglass work.
Chris

 

[gadangit]

By the way- Thanks for the information and help you gave me on my rudder last year. It worked out great and my control has improved greatly.

You are welcome! Our new rudder made a huge difference as well.

The winch that I now have for control of the main sheet is over a cabinet that should have more than enough room for the motor as it now is almost empty.

Interesting. If our halyard winch had a motor hanging from it, it would be hanging in space. Not very pleasing to the eye, but probably not a head knocker. Do you have a picture of that area on your boat?

 

[Tom Metzger]

FWIW, a few weeks ago I watched someone in a bosun's chair cut down a genny after it got jammed in the foil slot. The owner had been hoisting it with a power winch. I assume when it got stuck he just took another wrap on the winch and hauled away.

Those winches have power.

 

[gkjtexoma]

How about this from Harken and a decent lithium drill?

 

[gkjtexoma]

How about this from Harken and a decent lithium drill?

Or this from Sailrite? They would be prime candidates for going overboard I guess.

 

[jdmgfx]

The cabinet I am talking about is directly to the starboard of the companionway steps. It has over 14” of width more depth than needed. Anyway should be enough room for motor and control panel. I’ll shoot you a picture when I can.

 

[supersailor]

I was just doing a little adding up and this electric winch thing is adding up, and it looks to be quite an expensive project. There's the cost of the winches (eye popping), then, the boat's electrical system, which is inadequate to handle the large draw the winches require. Think windlass type loads. This means heavy gauge wire and a large battery bank. Then, the alternator needs to be replaced as the stock one is too small and will overwork attempting to charge the batteries.

So, the addition of electric winches would appear to include:

-New winches.
-New wiring.
-New alternator.
-Additional batteries.


It would probably be best to upsize your winches. Three speed winches would be best. The electric handles are mickey mouse but might provide some relief. I would be terrified of losing my expensive 20v drill on a blustery day. The West product looks better in that regard. That said, I have lost several handles over the years.


Good luck with your decision.

 

[jdmgfx]

What you say is true. I think that the 5 AGM series 30 house batteries and one engine battery same size along with my 90 amp alternator should cover this as I won’t be using the winches for long periods of time along with 2 200 solar panels to generate power to the batteries. For adjustment while running I can use the manual alternate control. I will calculate all that prior to getting them.
Thanks for the advise.