E36 pre-purchase survey

[mark001]

Hi,


I am new to yachting and have just placed an offer on an Ericson 36 (1981)
which is to be mainly a liveaboard and some coastal cruising as I
learn and improve my sailiing skills - then maybe more extensive cruising.

I am in Queensland, Australia and the boat is on a hard stand 5 hours
from where I live. I have had a survey done and there are some issues found - as with any old boat.


My two main concerns are some small blisters and tabbing that has come away from the hull.


I have read Bengt Blomberg's book and David Pascoe's article on blisterng and am now familiar with blisters, saturation, delamination, hydrolysis etc.
I think the blistering is acceptable (max size is 15mm) and plan to just break the heads to confirm and sand back prior to anti-foul.


The tabbing has come away from the hull at:
- anchor locker
- under the starboard settee
- aft cabin hanging locker
- both end of aft cabin bed


The tabbing is coming away from the hull at:
- V-berth bulkhead under the bunk
- fore and aft edge of double bed
- behind galley drawers


The starboard hanging locker bulkhead has a soft spot and some water stains above V-berth


The surveyor described it as "the worst case of delaminating fiberglass tabbing I have seen".
Is this a deal breaker?


The surveyor did also say that this was fixable and that I could do most of the prep work myself and that the vessel still represents good value.
Does anyone have experience repairing tabbing that has come away from the hull.


I do like the look and feel of the yacht and am quite excited by it.

 

[PDX]

With blister repair, if they're all that size, you want to sand back, then barrier coat with epoxy before applying bottom paint. I would have someone check the hull with a moisture meter after sanding. If its still on the wet side after sanding through the tops it would be helpful to let the hull sit and dry out for awhile.

Repairing tabbing is medium to low skill level work that anyone can do. But it is physically nasty and messy. You must grind back the old stuff, which means you will be sanding over your head most of the time. The better the grinding job the better the re-tab will adhere. If you use epoxy for the re-tab (recommended) I suggest you take some time learning proper techniques (correct application temperature, ample stirring time, ample wet-out time, adding cabosil to keep it from running out and increasing overhead suction) first. It will save you a lot of time and frustration in the long run. Bi-axial glass is stronger and easier to use than conventional roving or cloth.

 

[Christian Williams]

Hi Mark,

Well, this is a big job. I would hesitate, especially as a first boat. The surveyor's remark is troublesome, but if you go ahead at least it will help you establish a very low price.


Part of the fun of boats is the emotional ups and downs of searching for one to buy. I don't think I've ever regretting moving on to the next candidate. On the other hand, I have many recollections of "thank god I didn't buy that!"

For what it's worth--

Christian

 

[toddster]

I wonder why the tabbing has come off. Could it be related to the boat being on stands for a long time, distorting the shape? (That's a noob lesson I learned last year. Installed some new tabbing and some if it pulled away from the hull when the boat was re-launched and the hull shape relaxed.) At least if it has been on the hard, the hull should be dry and ready for the blister work. BTW, that job took me all of last summer to do.

 

[Mark F]

Hi Mark001,

Welcome, Is the boat a Ron Holland 36 like the first photo or a 36C in the second photo. Just curious .

 

[mark001]

Thank you for the replies. I am thinking I will proceed and will be settling today or tomorrow. Excited and anxious all at the same time.
I was able to negotiate what I consider a good price for it - $35,000 (and two months on hardstand has be prepaid by seller and also putting back in water).

PDX: I may do the grinding job myself and then have a professional cove and lay the new tabbing (this is what the surveyor suggested) or learn to do it myself. Any leads on resource materials to learn that would be appreciated.

toddster: It has only just gone on hardstand and previous owners cruised over to Australia (they did not know of de-tabbing) but dont know it its history before that. Yes I am anxious as to why it has de-tabbed. I have a couple of months to do the work.

Welcome, Is the boat a Ron Holland 36 like the first photo or a 36C in the second photo. Just curious .

I think it is more like the 36C. What is the difference betweenRH36 and 36C?

 

[mark001]

Ahh, I just found the download section. It is definately a 36C.

 

[Seth]

The only thing in common is they are 36 feet long

The RH 36 is a racer cruiser designed by Ron Holland and the 36C is a performance cruiser designed by Bruce King. They have no relation to each other in terms of design or structural engineering. The only commonality is they were built by the same company.

As to the tabbing-for a boat that old that was sailed to Oz, I am not surprised you are seeing this. If you really like the boat and can get it at a good price, this is not too hard of a repair, and afterwards you should be good to go for some serious sailing.

Hope this helps.

S

 

[Matey]

Mark,It sounds like you're going for it. Research and a sound plan and prep are a good idea. I'm a big fan of West Systems epoxybut if you have allot of vertical or overhead work I would contact these folks.http://www.prosetepoxy.com/default.htmnot the cheapest or available in regular marinestores, but the stuff is awesome to work (doesn't sag) with and of excellent quality. Well worth it if you have lots of the work I mentioned. Stores in an injection gun thatis great to work with as well.Regards, Greg

 

[markvone]

Probably not a 1981

I don't think the E36C and E36RH production overlapped. The E36RH came out later, starting in 1981. The E36C was produced during the 1970's ending in the late 70s, so your boat is a little older. Check the hull ID number for the year.

Mark

 

[PDX]

PDX: I may do the grinding job myself and then have a professional cove and lay the new tabbing (this is what the surveyor suggested) or learn to do it myself. Any leads on resource materials to learn that would be appreciated.

If I had the choice between grinding and tabbing, I would take the latter in a heart beat. Once you have the technique down, it is a way easier job. And I don't know about down under but in the states I would be very cautious about selecting a "professional." Here there is no formal training, licensing, or certification for boat workers. And yards will often try to talk you out of using epoxy. It is harder to learn and use than polyester.

The best resource material I have run across, and I have not made an exhaustive study of the field, is put out by West System. And much, if not all of it, is available free on line. I suggest you use an additional source as well--not because there is anything wrong with West System but because I like additional perspective.

Some pointers I have learned through experience are:

1. Stir the epoxy for as long as recommended. Don't try to shorten this by stirring more vigorously.

2. Stir the epoxy in a shallow pan. Something resembling a gold panning pan would be ideal. Don't use a narrow, tall container. It will go off too fast and smoke.

3. Pay attention to working temperature, and this is particularly important if you are glassing outdoors. I bought from a manufacturer who offered a very fast as well as very slow hardener,and the two could be mixed. During the course of a work day I would start with 2/3 fast and by the end I was using 2/3 slow. Ideal temperature for epoxying is about 70 degrees. If working outdoors you usually get a narrow window of this, hence the need for different mixes.

4. Let the wetted out surface tack up before proceeding further. I usually wait about an hour.

5. Mix cabosil into the epoxy if using on any vertical surface.

6. I suggest some trial runs before actually working on the boat. Don't get impatient. Mistakes have to be ground off.

 

[Loren Beach]

And on the subject of preparing the surface for attaching that new glass fabric.... Never be afraid to use coarse paper on your right angle sander/grinder. 16 grit is good. (!)
Just put the end of the 3" hose to your old shop vac reasonably close and in line with the out-fly material from the grinder. It will suck up 95% of everything that comes off, including most all of the really irritating fine dust.

In ye olden days we would use heaving roving for tabbing -- nowadays we use biaxial fabric. Wets out fast with epoxy and is stronger by far since All of the structural fibers (fibres?) are across the joint you are creating/reinforcing.

Post up some pictures of the boat when you can.

Regards,
Loren

 

[mark001]

Thanks so much for your replies everyone, I really appreciate it.

Yes I did go ahead and buy the boat. I have just returned from a three day trip to start the work. The tabbing is no where near as bad or as hard as I thought. I have removed half of the problem areas and will return after Christmas (the yard is closed now) to continue. This also gives me time to follow up on your suggestions and even practice some glassing The pros in the yard obviously are suggesting they do it. The temperature here is 30-35C (85-95F) and inside the boat it gets hotter so may have to do it at night.
Thanks for the tip on the vac Loren.

I also ground back the heads of the blisters released the liquid washed them out and am letting them dry out.

The boat was advertised as 1981 but I found documents on the boat that indicate it was actually 1976 so you are right Mark.

I didn't take any pics this time but will when I return after xmas and put some up. I got a little sun stroke and sunburn so will need to be more careful next time.
I am loving it.

Thanks again.

Mark.