E34 Drive Train Rebuild

cawinter

Member III
I posted this to the sailnet list earlier. Here it is for 'our' .ORG archives. :)
Chris
-------------------
Our cutless bearing was starting to wear very thin and play had increased beyond my comfort zone (which is admittedly tight), and we thus embarked on a complete clean-up of the drive train. Here are my notes that might come in handy for anyone else with an E34 or similar.

Disassembly:
I removed our 15" MaxProp for the annual cleanup and re-greasing. We had never removed the inner-most hub but I was amazed that after a little nudging, the pin came out just fine and the hub unscrewed from the tapered thread of the shaft. Our stuffing box was quite 'green', and it took some contortions to remove the two large nuts completely. Note to self: Should be grounded/zinc-ed and maintained more often than I did (once annually since 1999). We tried to remove the shaft coupling by inserting the spacer and then working up with longer and longer screws (no room on transmission side) but the thing didn't budge, and I was concerned about bending the transmission coupling. Not sure how real that risk is, though. We finally ended up taking an intermediate step by torching the coupling while disconnected and giving it a few good taps with a hammer from astern to break the bond. Going back to the spacer approach, the coupling finally came off. The coupling was unpainted (Note to self: Paint!) and quite pitted, even on the flange side. We had a someone press out the cutless bearing with a special tool. No setscrews, just a press fit. I would strongly recommend this approach and not bang around on the strut. The shaft has a total length of 45 1/8" and fits FINE inside the rudder without dropping it! Here is the answer! We had minor scoring on the shaft at the packing and none at the cutless bearing. I still have to take the shaft to check for trueness.

Measurements and replacements/sources:
- We will replace the shaft coupling with a new one since this is an obvious time to do it. Will be painted, too. Source: Local shaft shop. This is the standard 4" Hurth coupling, the dimensions of which can be found e.g., at the PYIINC site or at the Hurth-follow-up distributor/reseller here in the US. I can find their name if someone is interested.
- I bought a new stuffing box made by Buck Algonquin (00PB100; 1" shaft). Note: The log OD is 1 3/4" which is different from the E34 manual. Note: Measure carefully before you buy. The price was around $60 +S/H, and the box looks great. Much more sturdy than the original with bigger nuts and a bit of a grounding point. The hose looks excellent, too. The new packing will be 1/4", a little thicker than the 1/8" we had on the old (I believe).
- I also bought a new cutless bearing from PYI (Caravel 03-100-114-400) with 1" ID, 1 1/4" OD and 4" length. Price around $110 +S/H. Made in Italy and looks great. I liked it (not because of the Old Europe thing) but because its body is made of bronze. The length needs to brought down to 3 25/32" which should be no problem.
- I also bought a PYI R&D Flexible Shaft Coupling. 910014 (I believe. The 910001 is also recommended but overkill per PYI.) The coupling, inserted between the two coupling halves, adds about 1.25" to the length of the drivetrain. I am planning on having the shaft shortened by that length. We already have 7/8" of shaft unsupported past the strut. The flex coupling comes with all the bolts but I believe that the retail price of the piece of conducting rubber to bond shaft and transmission is way too high. This should be easier to accomplish and without excessive imbalance of the moment of inertia of the coupling (I would think).

The things all fit together nicely, and all I have left to do is check the shaft for trueness and have it shortened. Just FYI, the price of a finished new Aquamet22 shaft with coupling, taper, keyways etc. can run over $400. Ouch! I hope there is no reason to go to those extremes.

I am still pondering the immediate area of the log inside the boat. It seems that trim ballast has been placed on both sides with gaps underneath, creating two voids. I am considering cleaning up the whole area with filler etc. and then giving it a good few coats of Bilgecoat...and then forget about it for another 10 years.
 

escapade

Inactive Member
congrats!!!!!

Chris,
Sounds like your having LOTS of fun. You were correct in thinking that you could bend the coupleing. I have done it! On Escapade I heated the coupleing RED hot with an acetylene torch & still couldn't budge it! Couldn't believe it could be that tight. Ended up splitting it to get the shaft out. I used a liberal amount of anti-seize compound on the coupleing & shaft on reassembly. Nice to have a "zipper" to get it apart next time. Let me know how the PYI coupleing works out. I have considered putting one in but would like someone's experience with one first. I replaced the hose & clamps, cutlass bearing, etc. when I did mine. Used the "teflon" packing rather than flax in the stuffing box. Still satisified after 3 seasons. One more tip. The tech at Marysville Marine (service center for Hurth revearseing gears) recommended changing the fluid EVERY year in the gear box. After replacing a gearbox at a cost of $1,600.00+ because the P.O. didn't I do that every year. The cost of 1 pint of ATF isn't that great.
Have fun & sail fast.
Bud 1988 E34 "Escapade"
 

cawinter

Member III
Good info

Thanks, Bud. I believe I read through someone's notes a while back about bending the transmission coupling. Could have been you. At least we all now know that on our boat the shaft can come out without having to drop the rudder.

I was planning on going Teflon on the packing, too. My biggest concern is still the 'minor' scoring on the shaft where the old packing was. The problem would solve itself if I left everything the way it was since the 'new' packing would ride 1.25" higher than the old one. Then again I feel that slightly more than 2" of unsupported shaft after the strut is probably a bit too much.

The flex coupling just seemed to make good sense but I won't know until we relaunch later in May.

E34 Dangriga
 

escapade

Inactive Member
shaft support, or when is enough enough

Chris,
If you look at other boats I believe you'll find many examples of the prop being farther away from the strut than 2". As long as the prop itself is not terribly out of balance it shouldn't be a problem. Biggest concern is usually clearance in front of the rudder which isn't a concern on our boats. The cutlass bearing has a rather large surface to support the shaft. Recutting the keyway & redimpleing the shaft will probably take 1 hr. @ a machine shop @ $60.00 or more per hr. If you do have the shaft shortened have the shop reface the new coupleing and then mark the order you tighten the set screws. This can reduce viboration considerably, even with a properly aligned engine.
Have fun & sail fast
Bud E34 "Escapade"
 

andy beach

Member I
Flexible Coupling

Chris... I am also curious how the flexible coupling works for you too. The 3 cylinder diesel with the tripod mount seems to vibrate more than I would like even after aligning the shaft,truing the shaft,propeller etc. I am also on my third season with the teflon packing and it seems to be working out great. Smooth Sailing Andy E34
 

cawinter

Member III
Follow up after assembly

Just an update on my note from January 4:

I asked around some more and was able to get a new shaft for a little
over $200 (AQ22 ~45 1/8 minus the thickness of the flex coupling, two
keyways, taper, threads) incl. a new split coupling. As I mentioned, the
shaft slides in and out without rudder removal. The new cutless bearing
from PYI (Caravel 03-100-114-400) with 1" ID, 1 1/4" OD and 4" length
(bronze) fits just fine, actually is a little shorter than the strut
allows. The old one was 3 25/32" long. We made it flush with the
trailing edge of the strut. The new stuffing box was made by Buck
Algonquin (00PB100; 1" shaft). Note: The log OD is 1 3/4" which is
different from the E34 manual. Per someone's advice (Paul?) I got the
PTFE flax packing (1/4") and decided to do all the packing on the work
bench. Easy! The PYI R&D Flexible Shaft Coupling 910014 (I believe.
The 910001 is also recommended but overkill per PYI) was tricky to get
in given the clearance between the stuffing box and the transmission
coupling but a little back and forth solved the problem. Only issue is
that I can barely pull the packing nut back far enough to get at the
packing later. Not what ABYC had in mind but that's the way our boats
are laid out. I figured that the flex coupling was important enough to
make this compromise. We will create conductivity between the two
coupling halves by inserting a piece of conducting rubber between the
two fail-safe straps as PYI recommends. No issue with imbalance.

I decided to just sand and clean the area abaft the opening to the
engine space. #267 had a very significant bow-down attitude when she was
first delivered to the first owner, and they loaded up with a few 100
pounds of ballast aft. I figured that from some very "content-rich"
exchanges between the first owner and Ericson back in 1988. Anyway, the
lead bricks are arranged alongside the shaft and create two voids that
prevent proper drainage into the bilge. With time running out I decided
to just prime (Precote) and paint (2x Bilgecoat) the area (incl. the
lead) and leave it basically the way it was. Maybe later...

Overall the work looks clean and worth the effort. Nice project for the
winter months.

Hope this helps others...
 

escapade

Inactive Member
ballast?

Chris
I find it very interesting that your E34 has the extra ballast behind the engine. Escapade is hull #265 which I believe would be 2 hulls older than yours. It has the wing keel but floats on her design lines nicely as long as I don't fill the forward water tank. We only use that when on vacation & will be out for the better part of a week. Typically we sail w/water in the port tank only. Is your fuel & holding tank mounted aft? Something doesn't sound quite right & I can see why the P.O. would be upset. I have read somewhere that the 34's had a list to starboard (I believe) but this sounds completely different.
Have fun & sail fast
Bud E34 "Escapade"
 

cawinter

Member III
Bud,
Maybe we can compare notes on this. #267 was definitely delivered with a VERY disconcerting 6+" bow-down attitude, and the owner had Ericson (through Sailing Specialties in Mystic/CT) add 600+ lb of ballast aft. I found the ingots all over the place (cubby under the stove, by the shaft log, stbd lazartette, aft lazarette), generally glassed in but clearly a post-production addition. The correspondence was interesting. 267 has a wing keel, too. The stbd list appears to be an Ericson trademark. Our fuel tak is to port under the aft berth and the holding tank is in the stbd lazarette close to the back wall of the head. We only fill the fwd tank when I really need it (rarely), and then it is the first one to be emptied. There is nothing unusual related to that. Everything seems to be standard, which is why the original problems are just strange. She now floats fine, a little lower maybe, and we raised the bootstripe about 2" to address minor blistering on the gelcoat due to her lower waterline. Needless to say, I love the boat, and she's been good to me since 1999.
 

escapade

Inactive Member
Verrrry Interesting

Chris,
Tankage sounds exactly the same as mine. Refrig is on starboard side, & 2 group 27 batteries in standard location under aft berth. I have none of the lead ingots you have, & believe me when I tell you I've been in virtually every nook & crany on board. I've even replaced the cabin sole! I don't have the starboard list mentioned. I attributed that to the wing keel, but you just blew that theory out of the water. This is very strange. These boats come out of the same mold, should be identical. Maybe Seth or Martin K. could shed some light as they where around during production.
All that being said, we love our boat, too. She was in sad shape when we purchased her but 4 years of TLC is bringing her back from the edge. Was not real sure of the wing keel but doesn't seem to hinder performance or pointing ability. Plus it allows me to trailer her home & store inside for the winter! That's a real load behind a pick-up.
Bud
1988 E34 #265
 

cawinter

Member III
Bud,

Other than my two group 31s in the same location, I am sure the layouts are identical. Very strange difference indeed, especially if one considers the amount of mass that would have to somehow be located fwd to cause such a depression. Anyway, I guess we are a "heavy" E34 then :egrin: .

I still want to replace the sole and have listened in awe to Geoff, Tom M. and yourself. One of these days...
 

Martin King

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Maybe we can compare notes on this. #267 was definitely delivered with a VERY disconcerting 6+" bow-down attitude, and the owner had Ericson (through Sailing Specialties in Mystic/CT) add 600+ lb of ballast aft. I found the ingots all over the place (cubby under the

6" down by the bow? Something is way wrong with that picture! Throwing
lead ballast at the problem is just a band aid and typical of the factory.
I've heard of similar lead ingots coming out of some of the 31's.

The boat should be sitting on her lines-more or less. Maybe up or down
an inch or two due to ground tackle and or tanks but 6+ is off the hook.
My advice would be to strip everything out of the ends of the boat and
try to pinpoint the problem. The listing problem may be endemic in some
models and hard to cure but 6" out of trim on a 34 footer would be unacceptable to me.
Martin
 

cawinter

Member III
Martin,

I'll be happy to share some of the info off-list. This whole situation is bizarre at best. She's apparently been fine since the trim ballast was installed back in 1988 or 1989, and I didn't have any issues since we bought her in 1999. This clearly would have been an case of incomplete disclosure. It took me a while to dig through all the paperwork and find a set of letters from 1988 that explained all of this, and since everything was "fixed" I did not pursue.
 
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