E32-3 Traveler in the cockpit?

vanilladuck

E32-3 / San Francisco
Blogs Author
The traveler on the E32-3 is bolted to the sea hood just above the companionway hatch. I'm thinking of moving the new traveler down and aft into the cockpit. It would be fastened about where the mallet is laying on the transition to the companionway in the photo.

Pros:
  • More power sheeting the main
  • Closer to the helm for single-handing (which I do a lot)
  • Less gear on the cabin top
  • Clears the way to have a better front edge of the dodger (in the process of having one built)
Cons:
  • More stuff in the cockpit, not as comfortable for passengers
  • Obstacle when exiting the companionway
  • Might interfere with the aft edge of the dodger (will find out more soon from the builders)
What am I not considering?
 

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bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Pros:
  • More power sheeting the main
  • Closer to the helm for single-handing (which I do a lot)
  • Less gear on the cabin top
  • Clears the way to have a better front edge of the dodger (in the process of having one built)

I personally hate having a traveler on the bridge deck. It seems like it is always in the way.

That aside, I'm also usually single-handing, and on my boat I made my mainsheet into a simple 6:1 purchase ending at a block with a cam-cleat on the existing traveler. I can play the main from the helm, flicking it in and out of the cam-cleat as needed, it's simple and convenient, and avoids the whole run-the-line-forward-under-the-boom-then-down-and-aft-along-the deck thing.

Not sure that it would work with a dodger, but... it works for me.

IMG_2876.PNG
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
It would look, and be, racier. If that's good.

But the cabin-house controls cause me no issue when singlehanded because my wheel pilot allows movement for all sail adjustments, winch cranking, halyard work and so on. I'm only at the helm for pictures. :)
 

peaman

Sustaining Member
You probably know that a few Ericson models have the traveler mounted aft of the companionway, so those would, in my opinion, be the first place to look for guidance for any change. One thing that occurs to me is that by bringing the traveler into the cockpit, you will not be able to pull the boom as high as the present location, due to 1) the increased vertical distance, boom to traveller, and 2) the narrower space at the bridge deck versus the coach roof. Also, I don't understand where you will get "More power sheeting the main", other than that you will be physically closer to it (which has some merit).
 

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
It would be fastened about where the mallet is laying on the transition to the companionway in the photo..
I like having mine on the bridge deck, but think I would love it if it were further aft right in front of the helm. I don't use my dodger unless I'm going on a long cruise and yes the mainsheet will rub occasionally going downwind. Not any difference in adjusting boom height from cabin top location other than you may need a bit longer mainsheet. My traveler is longer than most cabin tops I've seen too and combined with mainsheet location further aft on the boom you do get a more favorable longer lever position. It does hamper cockpit space mostly because of mainsheet operation with non sailing guests on board.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
On our boat the traveller is on the cabin top and I would not consider moving it. We have an opening in either side in the dodger windows where the traveller line comes through and is then long enough to handle easily at the helm when I single hand (which I do often). The mainsheet is also on the cabin top, but led aft. It is normally held in the chock by the companionway winch, but if I'm contemplating a jibe where I want to haul it in and let it out quickly to control the jibe, I undo the chock and cleat it off on a cleat near the cockpit winch. It all works great and leaves the companionway free and clear for movement and allows me, my wife and any guest to sit comfortably in the cockpit without having to dodge a traveller and mainsheet.
Frank
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
One big improvement obtained by having the traveler further aft, whether on a bridge deck or further aft right in front of the helm: less purchase is needed. It's also easier for single handing (IMHO) to have the mainsheet cam cleat near at hand.
The Olson does well with a 6 to 1 main purchase, but if the purchase were further forward like the 80's BK Ericson's it would also need a winch on breezy days.
As for cabin access, we actually like having the loaded-up mainsheet to grab onto getting in or out of the companionway. At the dock or on the hook I move it off center either way with the traveler, tho.

This Whole Discussion is, all that said, like rehashing a lost cause. (Sigh)
By the late 70's all the surviving sailboat builders had figured out the new customers did not like "all those ropes" cluttering up the cockpit. Ericson was designing sailboats for active sailing and being kind of sneaky about it with performance oriented hulls, rigs, and deck layouts..... but some features were totally driven by marketing, like housetop travelers and steering wheels. Oh, well.
We are just lucky that they designed boats actually intended, sneakily, for active and fast sailing. :egrin:

Speaking of contemplating a traveler moved aft on an E-32-3, we also have one advantage in that the O-34 bridge deck has a molded-in recess for a traveler. This keeps the track flush with the frp surface.
 
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I do the "run-the-line-forward-under-the-boom-then-down-and-aft-along-the deck thing" and it's just what's simple and works because of the dodger. Out of the 3 Ericsons (all 27's) i'm familiar with in our marina 2 of us have a dodger and the above mentioned rigging, we both have tillers. The third boat has a wheel and their traveler is just foreward of the wheel from what I recall.

Having the mainsheet blocking the companionway seems like an understated/considerable obstruction to me. Would there be any way to rig it further aft?

Not bringing up any new points, though.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
If you move it back further in the cockpit to free up the companionway entry, you risk lots of bruises on your shins as you try to step over the traveler. Been there, done that on a previous boat! :(
Frank
 

Nick J

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Blogs Author
I really like the idea of having the traveler in the cockpit, but with a wheel you don't gain much unless it was just forward of the pedestal like on a J35c and many other more race oriented boats:


retrofitting the 32, 35 and 38s to this configuration would be challenging since the lazarette hatch extends past the pedestal and I'm not sure the boom is long enough.

Placing it in front of the companion way is still out of reach from the helm, gets in the way of a dodger, and disrupts one of the more comfortable spots in the cockpit to relax. Having the traveler in the cockpit can also present an increased safety risk. Skip through the typical Sail Anarchy stuff and read post 17 here detailing the outcome of an accidental jibe on a boat with a traveler in the cockpit:

 

vanilladuck

E32-3 / San Francisco
Blogs Author
Also, I don't understand where you will get "More power sheeting the main", other than that you will be physically closer to it (which has some merit).

My phrasing was probably confusing -- Moving the traveler aft would also move the point of sheeting on the boom aft. This effectively increases the lever arm to the fulcrum (gooseneck) which increases the mechanical advantage to moving a load (sail pressure in this case).
 

vanilladuck

E32-3 / San Francisco
Blogs Author
Having the mainsheet blocking the companionway seems like an understated/considerable obstruction to me. Would there be any way to rig it further aft?

Unfortunately, the 32-3's starboard lazarette would be in the way of moving the traveler further aft from the bridge deck. But who needs a lazarette?! That thing just fills up with junk, dirt and salt anyway.
 

vanilladuck

E32-3 / San Francisco
Blogs Author
Having the traveler in the cockpit can also present an increased safety risk. Skip through the typical Sail Anarchy stuff and read post 17 here detailing the outcome of an accidental jibe on a boat with a traveler in the cockpit:


Wow, what a horrendous accident. Sounds like the skipper had horrible judgment and poor operational practices. That aside, it makes sense about the added danger of a bridge deck traveler. I've been thinking about the added awareness and safety protocol that will need to be explained to crew and passengers on the boat if I go this route -- and for myself as a single-hander. Thanks Nick
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I will now shed all semblance of balanced appraisal and generous appreciation of other people's choices and the long tradition here of rational response.

A nutty idea!

Why, for all the mess, the lead will be only somewhat closer to the wheel. And really, when the traveler car is positioned uphill in light air, the mainsheet will entirely block the companionway. And when off the wind, won't the mainsheet bear on the coaming?

People replace the 32-3 traveler with a cabin-house traveler of much longer span, and custom (usually ugly) towers, so as to gain trim possibilities not available with the short stock traveler. That I can see, if I grit my teeth and squint. This change, I can't.

I mean, with a tiller, yeah, maybe--you're sitting there, near the cabin house, and any guests already have to duck and weave to avoid the horrible circumstance of a long stick thingy that sweeps the cockpit every time you tack. But this model was designed for a wheel, with a T-cockpit well, because cruising boats are supposed to be comfortable.

But to play the sheet from the wheel position--what about anybody sitting on the cockpit bench, wouldn't the sheet spill their cocktail, or they'd be sitting on it, or the dog would? Golly, I must be missing something about any reason for this change at all.

I also demand to hear myself say that singlehanding, offshore, which may well be the hidden impulse for more efficient controls in this particular case, the sole operator of the vessel is at the helm 1 percent of the time, since he-she-they-one spends most of one's-them's-her's-his time moving around the cockpit keeping the self -steering gear happy with frequent reefing and unreefing and tweaking sheets, such that the wheel is never touched. I mean, en route Hawaii alone, you never hand-steer.

Beyond such arguments is the change from stock, and the defiance of Bruce KIng by an ordinary mortal, and the addition of more leverage, or easier fine tuning, of mainsheet tension, which is a racing-boat thing, whereas the 32-3 mainsail is small and can be manhandled by a nine-year-old in a gale, compared to racing boats with big mainsails.

I am repulsed by the knowledge that, actually, it's none of my business, and that owners have personalities, and some of them bizarre and with controversial traits such as hating dodgers or setting umbrellas for shade such that children point and giggle, and of always having bananas aboard despite the well-known warnings against (based apparently on rusty banana boats, which when they sank killing all hands left behind for would-be rescuers nothing but a flotilla of yellow floating fruits to mock the mortality of men).

And also, I once did something like the proposed --that is, changed from end-boom sheeting to mid-boom, with a traveler in mid cockpit, and it worked fine but I still have the ankle scars.

Ergo, I would consider taking the lazy way out by monitoring the existing system during the 500-mile singlehanded shakedown cruise--but in the end, of course, I would do what I bloody well want to do, just as you will, too.:)
 

jtsai

Member III
When I explored the Chesapeake Bay solo, I discovered the mainsheet was the least adjusted sheet on the boat. 32-3's main sail can be trimmed and tamed effectively with traveler.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
I don't think the geometry of what you're proposing works with a dodger. But, I also don't see how your "pro" claim that it "Clears the way to have a better front edge of the dodger," materializes. The sloped front panes of a dodger usually match quiet well with the "triangle" made by the mid-boom sheet setup.

DSCN2386.JPG

For most people, rigging for single-handing seems to mean "lines led aft," and "lines led aft" seems to mean lines led back to the cabin-top (versus all the way back to the helm). When working my lines on clutches, winches, and cleats I'm usually standing exactly where you propose moving your traveler. Seems like it would be in the way. Also seems like the tails of any lines being worked would readily fall into/onto the traveler, leaving the possibility of tangles.

My traveler controls are led back to the aft cabin-top. Unlike the mainsheet, halyards, and reef lines, for which I have to leave the helm and approach the cabin-top to adjust, I can pop the traveler lines out of the cam-cleats, adjust, and reset, all from behind the helm.
20210815_163444_HDR.jpg
 

Pete the Cat

Sustaining Member
Don't know how many miles you have sailed your boat, but I agree with the sense of Christian's comments. I have abhored some arrangements on boats I have delivered while looking them over at the dock and then come to appreciate why someone thought it was a good idea after a few hundred miles and/or snotty weather. Other times, my experience just confirmed my suspicion that the boat had been altered on impulse rather than experience. I have learned to spend time with boats before altering basic features--like a couple years-- particularly alterations that leave lots of holes in the boat or compromise the basic structures. As primarily single hander, I find I am actually behind the helm a small percentage of the time and like to have the other stuff convenient to where I will be most of the time--tweaking the main trim, cunningham, halyard tensions, etc. Singlehanding is why my main navigation equipment is below deck. But folks need to equip their vessels the way they use them. Some of the boats in my marina are well outfitted for displaying their latest purchases at the dock, but seem to be suboptimal for actual passage making.
 

vanilladuck

E32-3 / San Francisco
Blogs Author
I don't think the geometry of what you're proposing works with a dodger. But, I also don't see how your "pro" claim that it "Clears the way to have a better front edge of the dodger," materializes.

The folks making my dodger like to employ a slotted attachment on the bottom edge of the fabric. It works similar to the luff tape on a furler with the dodger edge being the luff and the fastened and bedded edge on the cabin top being the furler foil. This results in no spray squirting through the bottom edge when a big wave comes over the mid deck.

It can't be setup this way with the traveler just in front. Snaps would need to be used instead.

Overkill? Yep, that's my middle name ;)
 
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