E28 Battery thoughts and challenges

[FullTilt E28]

Ok so I started working out my new battery plan to replace the old car batteries in our new to us E28. Seems the very tidy battery compartment in the E28 is just a hair short for Group 27 batteries - max length is right around 11inches- max width is 8 inches and max hight is about 10inches. Seems the Group 27's all land in the 12 inchs long range.

Curious what people have done to address this Group 24's can be quite different on the amp hours vs Group 27's or even 30's.

I'm a bit frustraited with this right now especially given that even the smaller group 27's seem to be out of the question.

Thank you in Advance
Trent

 

[FullTilt E28]

Ok I might have found a solution

The optima - Interstate Battery --SC34DM looks like it will just fit - 120amphrs. That I can live with all the group 27's tend to fall in the 90-100amphr range.

Size wise this will pretty much fill the battery compartment right to the max.

 

[Tom Metzger]

You had better look again

Trent - The specs I saw said 55 amp hours. Reserve capacity is 120 minutes. You can only put so much s**t in a 5#... Opps! I meant group 34 case.

You are better off with flooded cell group 24s at less than half of the price.

You didn't say what you want the batteries to do so we can't give you any other advice. Fridge? Shore power? Length of cruise? Starting battery?

BTW, the number in the battery name indicates the case size. There is no point in looking at different manufacturers of a particular rating for different case sizes. They are all the same. It's the guts that are different - the weight and electrical ratings.

 

[diamondjim]

Golf Cart Batteries

We have the standard "start" battery and two 12V deep cycles in parallel for the house. For the last two seasons they have worked out very well but still not quite good enough.
Enter my friends who use golf cart batteries. Two Trojan T-105 6V, 220 AH batteries in SERIES will give you more power for longer AND you can discharge them deeper than usual. Walmart has them in their "EverStart" brand as model ESCG-2. I still need to verify the details & specs on the ESCG-2 but they seem to be the same as the T-105 for about 1/2 the price. They should fit in the battery space.
Biggest power drain on my boat (E-28) was my Koolatron refrigerator box at about 4 amps. We use LED's for light with a few regular bulbs. The radios are next.
Don Casey in his book "Sailboat Electrics" goes over these batteries as well. I will be using them next season.
Good luck
Jim Dusek

 

[FullTilt E28]

Ok so here is the rub - price doesn't bother me as much as not having enough juice to enjoy a weekend away with the 15inch LCD TV etc. My wife is actually the gadget guru more than I.

So based on the max size I can fit in the stock battery bin on the E28 which is 11inches long max - 8inches wide and 10inches high.

SC34DM 10 x 6-7/8 x7-13/16 - Amp Hours @ 25 Amps =120, Amp Hrs @ 20 Hrs. = 55

Based on all the battery stats I've looked at group 24's are pretty minimal OK for the basics - but if we decide to add a cold plate then we'll want better batteries. So might as well do it right to start with.

The Group 27's don't fit. 12-3/4 x 6-3/4 x 9-1/2

The optima group 34 deep marine cycle battery seems to have a pretty good rating and is about max size that will fit.
10 x 6-7/8 x7-13/16

A group 24 is - 11 x 6-7/8 x 9-1/2

I have no idea whats in there right now but they are very small and almost laughable. Not to mention one of them is pretty much done.
My usage- The boat will be making an extended visit to the delta - and we will be making a trip down the coast with it at some point. So as much juice as I can pack within a resonable price point. Flooded starter batteries from costco is what we have now and not what I'm after.

It is looking more and more like we will be migrating to LED lighting to reduce the draw on the small battery options we have.

I did see some 6volt somethings but they were like $230 a battery and you need them looped together at all times for a full 12volt application. They were too tall to fit the E28 box anyway.

 

[Loren Beach]

Just a thought, but....
Perhaps it might help to make a mock-up of several of your more desireable battery candidates and start opening up various access possibilities around the nearby interior of your boat. Then try the lightweight cardboard imitations for fit...
:nerd:
We have gotten along very well on a pair of flooded T-145's mounted together where Ericson originally had put a couple of group 24's, but then we were really lucky.
Still, as long as you are not creating cable runs of over 5 or 6 feet or so, there might be some "undiscovered country" under a settee or somesuch where you could glass up a new battery platform with appropriate tie-downs.

Happy hunting,

Loren

 

[FullTilt E28]

Just a thought, but....
Perhaps it might help to make a mock-up of several of your more desireable battery candidates and start opening up various access possibilities around the nearby interior of your boat. Then try the lightweight cardboard imitations for fit...
:nerd:
We have gotten along very well on a pair of flooded T-145's mounted together where Ericson originally had put a couple of group 24's, but then we were really lucky.
Still, as long as you are not creating cable runs of over 5 or 6 feet or so, there might be some "undiscovered country" under a settee or somesuch where you could glass up a new battery platform with appropriate tie-downs.

Happy hunting,

Loren

Tempted to hack out the preformed Ericson battery compartment so we can pack more juice, but that might raise questions later when we want to sell the boat.

I'm going to talk with a marine electrical guy/friend next week and see what his thoughts are.

 

[Blue Chip]

Delta

Mentioning the delta automatically triggers the question..."how cvan I best use solar panels...any thoughts on that in your plans???

 

[Tom Metzger]

A few thoughts:

Trent - A few thoughts:

No matter what you copied, that battery will not put out 120 ah. The "120" spec is minutes @ 25 amps. In other words, 2 hours @ 25 amps = 50 ah. Since you don't use 25 amps for more than a few seconds this rating is irrelevant.

LED cabin lights are not the answer to a maiden's prayer. Two incandescent lamps for 4 hours is 8 amp hours. That isn't going to affect your weekend's cruise. The money you save will be significant.

If the lamps in your cabin lights are more than 12 watts replace them with lower wattage lamps.

There is an alternator on the engine. Charge the batteries when needed. Put the LED money into a battery monitor so you know when, and how much to charge them.

If you don't have a starting battery find a place for one. If you install a fridge you will need one. Adding a starting battery will double your available power.

Buy or borrow a book on boat electrical systems so you will know how to calculate what size batteries you really need. Listening to people on the net is a good way to build a bad system. Not every "expert" on the net spent time in engineering school.

I must be a dinosaur. I bought a boat so I could be away from the TV and telephone. Thirty years later I still don't have a TV, but I will admit to having a prepaid phone that is only on for outgoing calls.

 

[Howard Keiper]

Tom is right about having a starting battery, but to be ABYC compliant, it needs to be reserved for starting only. It can be switchable so as to be available in an emergency, but the thinking is that you'd better be able to start your engine when the rest of your gear has drawn down your house batteries to a point that you have no juice at all. That's an EMERGENCY. Calculate all your requirements as Tom says, but leave the start battery out of the equation.
Howard Keiper
Sea Quest
Berkeley

 

[FullTilt E28]

Trent - A few thoughts:

If you don't have a starting battery find a place for one. If you install a fridge you will need one. Adding a starting battery will double your available power.

Buy or borrow a book on boat electrical systems so you will know how to calculate what size batteries you really need. Listening to people on the net is a good way to build a bad system. Not every "expert" on the net spent time in engineering school.

I must be a dinosaur. I bought a boat so I could be away from the TV and telephone. Thirty years later I still don't have a TV, but I will admit to having a prepaid phone that is only on for outgoing calls.

The starting battery is on the list. I've installed one on an Olson 34 a few years back. Yes it would greatly alter the power options.

The LED light idea - they do make a noticable difference on the power draw when your limited on juice to start with. As for the TV - the boat is our home away from home so it will get used but we aren't huge TV people. Though the TV would be the biggest drain on the power program, or the laptop - yes we work- but working while at anchor is much better than in a cube.
A friend does marine electrical - I was hoping to have most of my gear in hand for when he has some time to come mess with the boat. He's looking into battery options for me also. The power challenge is a known issue these days with RV's and boats given all the electical crap we tend to pack along these days.

I think my favorite upgrade will be the coldplate - no fun sponging the ice water out of the bildge.

 

[Tom Metzger]

Quiz time!

The LED light idea - they do make a noticable difference on the power draw

OK, How much are you going to save and what will it cost? :thinker:

I know there have been a bunch of threads recently about LED cabin light replacements, but no one mentions numbers. We are talking amp hours and dollars here.

 

[FullTilt E28]

Quick update

Ok so Ryan Marine my sailing buddy says we are cutting the side of the stock Ericson battery box out - making it larger and glassing it up to make it look nice then dropping two Group 31's in. He owns an Ericson 25 and said he had the same exact issue. Says this is a pretty common issue with the older boats right now as people add various electrical systems and want more juice.

So problem solved -we'll be doing some fiberglassing and dropping in decent batteries.

 

[rwthomas1]

Glad to hear you found a workable and IMHO, the correct solution. Its difficult to have too much house battery bank. Any modifications that allow more capacity, provided they are done well and do not compromise anything else will likely ADD desirability to your boat. RT

 

[Loren Beach]

The starting battery is on the list. I've installed one on an Olson 34 a few years back. Yes it would greatly alter the power options.

Interesting. I wonder whose O-34? I built a plywood/epoxy/cloth box to install an AGM spiralcell under the aft berth in our Olson 34. That is our emergency/starting battery.
We have seldom had to use it, though, because our house bank will power the boat, fridge and all, for 2 or 3 days at anchor. That's the pair of six volt Trojan T-145's I mentioned earlier.

A nearby E-33RH has a spiralcell battery mounted on its side, in a custom hold-down, beneath the quarterberth. Those AGM's are nice to have because you then have many mounting options for your starting/emergency battery.

Best,
Loren in Portland
Olson 34 #8

 

[FullTilt E28]

Interesting. I wonder whose O-34? I built a plywood/epoxy/cloth box to install an AGM spiralcell under the aft berth in our Olson 34. That is our emergency/starting battery.
We have seldom had to use it, though, because our house bank will power the boat, fridge and all, for 2 or 3 days at anchor. That's the pair of six volt Trojan T-145's I mentioned earlier.

A nearby E-33RH has a spiralcell battery mounted on its side, in a custom hold-down, beneath the quarterberth. Those AGM's are nice to have because you then have many mounting options for your starting/emergency battery.

Best,
Loren in Portland
Olson 34 #8

O34 - RedSky - completely set for racing - no doors- tiller- no oven -- yada- yada. Upgraded rudder - warning original 034 rudders are known for failing where the metal fin is welded to the bottom of the rudder shaft - glass was then laid up over that. Upgraded rudder is a Schumacher design all carbon deal that is deeper than the keel. The boat drives like a dream and surfs like crazy. 15.5 knots max sustained on our SF to Hawaii trip.

Oh and our designated starter batter was DOA but we didn't know it till day 8 when the house batteries couldn't start the engine to charge up.

Solar pannel saved our butts

 

[Tom Metzger]

Oh damn!

Oh and our designated starter batter was DOA but we didn't know it till day 8 when the house batteries couldn't start the engine to charge up.

Please, PLEASE, do not ever tell anyone I gave you battery advice. Just forget it ever happened. You didn't listen anyway. [grin]

 

[FullTilt E28]

Please, PLEASE, do not ever tell anyone I gave you battery advice. Just forget it ever happened. You didn't listen anyway. [grin]

Hey all part of the adventure besides its Redsky and well the owner has a very long history of great racing and big adventures.

 

[rssailor]

E 28 Batts

I did the battery mods to Trents boat and it seems to be working well. He now has two group 31 batts approx 130 Ah per batt. The setup seems to be working well. Moonglow also has two gel 31s and an AGM 27 for starting the motor.
Sorry, been gone for too long from the site and been very busy the last several months. Just took the ABYC electrician class to become a certified marine electrician. Ryan