E27 ventilation layout?

[Glyn Judson]

Venting a diesel engine.

Jay, All good info so far so let me share with you what I have in place. I mounted my Wilcox Crittenden bilge vent fan to the underside of the port mushroom vent with no hose attached to it. My intent is to keep the engine room cooler than without a fan and given that heat rises, I saw no need for the hose. Not only does it do that but on a cold day or a night passage to Catalina Island, the exhaust works as an admirable hand warmer, no kidding. Plans are to install an identical one on the starboard side, I just haven't gotten around to putting it in, then I could easily keep both hands warm. If you wish, email me back channel at glynjudson@roadrunner.com for photos of the whole deal. Cheers, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA

 

[Christian Williams]

After Googling more of this, I'm reminded what a real threat carbon monoxide poisoning is in small spaces like a boat.

Never had a CO detector on board, but I'll get one now.

To blow up, I prefer propane.

 

[Schrewsburyduo]

We had a cheap Home Depot CO detector and felt good about it. Then it stopped working... You have to look hard for a decent unit that is battery operated.

My former boat (catalina 27) had a beta engine and had piped venting blowers. He also insisted that all diesels need fresh air etc. I thought it was good although it made for very loud operating the diesel as the blowers were so loud. It was also the case that the blower really deflected from the battery charging especially at idle speed. Basically the motor drew at least 7 amps. Once in a while when I just started the motor and the starting battery was low, if I just idled for a while and then stopped, the battery didn't have enough charge to re-start.

So now my E32-2 has a newer yanmar engine and when previous owner guy installed it he took out the blowers that were left over from the old Atomic 4. He claims there's no real need for it... For the past summer we never had an issue. If there was a small blower that was both silent and drew only a small amperage, then I would go for it. It's also the case that the Yanmar has a 55 amp alternator whereas the beta had only a 40amp.

 

[Loren Beach]

We had a cheap Home Depot CO detector and felt good about it. Then it stopped working... You have to look hard for a decent unit that is battery operated.

My former boat (catalina 27) had a beta engine and had piped venting blowers. He also insisted that all diesels need fresh air etc. I thought it was good although it made for very loud operating the diesel as the blowers were so loud. It was also the case that the blower really deflected from the battery charging especially at idle speed. Basically the motor drew at least 7 amps. Once in a while when I just started the motor and the starting battery was low, if I just idled for a while and then stopped, the battery didn't have enough charge to re-start.

So now my E32-2 has a newer yanmar engine and when previous owner guy installed it he took out the blowers that were left over from the old Atomic 4. He claims there's no real need for it... For the past summer we never had an issue. If there was a small blower that was both silent and drew only a small amperage, then I would go for it. It's also the case that the Yanmar has a 55 amp alternator whereas the beta had only a 40amp.

Prior CO detector thread:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?6713-CO-Detector-on-duty

Looks like we're diverting some from the original thread, but safety is an important part of "ventilation".

Speaking of those axial blowers for exhausting the engine compartment, I note the one we use only draws 2 to 3 amps, max, depending on model.
http://www.attwoodmarine.com/userfiles/store/product/files/1238/1731.pdf
Our model of Universal diesel has a Moto 50 amp alternator, FWIW.


Loren

 

[Schrewsburyduo]

Sorry Loren, I didn't mean to change the subject.

Prior CO detector thread:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?6713-CO-Detector-on-duty

Looks like we're diverting some from the original thread, but safety is an important part of "ventilation".

Speaking of those axial blowers for exhausting the engine compartment, I note the one we use only draws 2 to 3 amps, max, depending on model.
http://www.attwoodmarine.com/userfiles/store/product/files/1238/1731.pdf
Our model of Universal diesel has a Moto 50 amp alternator, FWIW.


Loren

 

[JPS27]

Great ideas!

Glyn, thanks for the idea on the fans. I like the idea of more than passive air flow (for no other reason than it makes sense to me). But on your idea for fans on both vents wouldn't you want one pushing air out and the other letting air in? Or does it not really matter that much?

thanks,
Jay

 

[Christian Williams]

I bought the C0 detector Loren mentioned in the prior thread. Currently $60 (down from $80) at Amazon: [h=1]MTI Industries 65-541-WT 12-V Surface Mount Hard Wired Carbon Monoxide Alarm[/h]
Also purchased the MTI hard-wired propane detector, same price.

For what it's worth, I ran my M25 for more than 24 hours uninterrupted this summer, with passive ventilation, in 80F air and water conditions. I have a Balmar 100 amp alternator and they get very hot (external regulator is mounted under the companionway, outside the engine compartment).

One swallow doesn't make a summer, of course.

 

[Rick R.]

When we had our boat surveyed one recommendation was to add a CO detector which we did. On a cold morning a couple weeks ago it went off while I was cooking bacon and eggs with the hatches shut. We cook with an alcolhol stove.

A good thing to have for sure. A nice stocking stuffer too.....lol:0

 

[Macgyro]

ABYC standards

Okay, I was looking for ABYC AC electrical standards while re-doing my AC system, and I came across these Diesel Ventilation standards. I didn't read it, but I'll post it here in case you're still interested.

https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/ibr/001/abyc.H-32.1987.pdf

-Dean

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Blowers are required on diesel engines?

"The main inspector asked to see if our blowers worked and I was surprised that this is required on diesel engines."

This sailing Blog about being boarded and inspected by the Coast Guard was from link on Latitude 38 Magazines Facebook page yesterday.
Another Boarding – This time USCG
http://www.twofishcat.com/2014/12/05/another-boarding-this-time-uscg/

For me personally, I have had voluntary inspections done on my boat by the Coast Guard Auxiliary a couple of times. The first time the only thing the inspector said about my ventilation system was that I need to have one of the cowl vents on the stern facing forward and the other facing aft. He said since I had a diesel I did not need a blower.

 

[Christian Williams]

There's certainly much to be learned when boarded by the Coast Guard.

My recent team wanted first to see the bilge, to assure that it was not on fire. This is apparently their protocol, and I was assured that it was for the protection of the boarding party as well as me. I said, I assure you my bilge has not been on fire lately, although you make an excellent point.

He had to look, however. He was surprised at the rather small bilge inspection port, which revealed only the bilge pump. He asked me to take up the cabin sole. I said, if the bilge is on fire, on this boat, the cabin sole comes up automatically. He seemed puzzled. I said, well, when on fire, it comes up as smoke, don't you see.

The young lieutenant jg allowed as how taking up the floorboards was not necessary in this case. A judgement call.

I thought at the time that farming had lost two good candidates when these fellows took to the sea.

But then I reconsidered, and thought how useful it was that they should get training boarding a sailboat at sea, and that I, and we, are the only practical way they can get it, and that doing their job in combat boots and assault rifles carrying waterproof computers ain't all that easy, and that it is a lot to ask that members of the armed forces dealing with drug pangas and giant containerships also shop for Topsiders and know how to make a good pina colada when off duty on their own yachts.

Do ships often have flaming bilges? I still don't quite get it and await the explanation.

 

[MMLOGAN]

Flaming Bilge

I once dated a....

 

[toddster]

I seem to recall something about uncontrolled coal fires being common on early 20th century shipping... Can't immediately think of an equivalent on fiberglass boats

...perhaps a hastily discarded doobie?

 

[Rick R.]

There was a fire in my bildge recently thanks to jalapeño peppers and too much spiced rum but Tumms arrived in time.

 

[Christian Williams]

Ok, I started it, now back to the value of ventilation and why the CG has it on the list:

Gasoline vapor is heavier than air. An ounce of gasoline has the power of a stick of dynamite when conditions are right. So much for gas.

Diesel and oil have similar issues, ship-wise, as discussed in Marine Fire Prevention, Firefighting and Fire Safety: A Comprehensive ...
By Maritime Training Advisory Board (U.S.), United States. Maritime Administration, Robert J. Brady Company, National Maritime Research Center (U.S.)

No more putting out the cigar in the bilge.

 

[Tom Metzger]

I saw no mention of blunts.