E25+ v. E27

[DavidWms]

After looking for quite some time, I've decided that Ericson is my first choice. Inspected a 1979 E25+ yesterday that looks to be in generally good shape but it is a shoal draft (not my preference) and then happened upon an 78 E27 today. The 27 is the last of that make while the 25+ is the first. I would appreciate hearing from those who have sailed both. I expect from the specs that the 25+ should be faster but that the E27 would likely be more stable cruiser. My boat will be lake bound for the forseeable future. The beam on the 25+ is slighly wider and the LWL on the 25+ is also longer than 27's so I'm not sure if room is better in the 27. Does the 27 have any advantage over 25+ other than blue water stability?

This 27 does have a diesel while 25+ owner removed the saildrive and added an OB. Thanks for your input.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

I own and E-27 and I have sailed a E-25 and E-26.

They are all great pocket cruisers. I love my E-27 because of the stability, forgiveness and space (6.1' of head room). She is heavy and does not carry a lot of sail and I don't think I have ever put the rail in the water. Not a great light air boat but very comfortable offshore. The E-25 I sailed (not a E-25+) was noticeably more tender and is a much lighter boat. The E-26 I sailed seemed much slower than my E-27, I think it has a wider beam. Again a heavy boat for it's length.

As far as engines go most E-27's had Atomic 4 gas, a few with diesel. My E-27 has a 8hp Yammer diesel. The E-25 I sailed had a 8hp outboard and the E-26 had a 11hp Universal diesel.

Check out this comparison chart I did using this on line Sail Calculator. It does show a slightly faster hull speed for the E-25+, but it also shows a higher capsize ratio.

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

I think it all comes down to what your looking for. I think the E-25+ would do a lot better in beer can racing and the 27's and 26's would be better coastal pocket cruisers. A lot depends on how the boats are rigged and sail configurations for different conditions. IMHO

 

[Loren Beach]

One caveat concerning the outboard on the 25+.
There is a 25+ in our moorage, and its bracket-mount OB is a long ways down over a high-ish transom.
Hard to reach when in the down position and because it's extended out beyond the end of the boat is going to cavitate a lot in a steep chop.

I would much prefer the IB aux. engine in any boat of this size.

Note that the factory OB option on the E-27 had the motor close to the hull via a transom cutout.

Not looking for any "deeper meanings" but IMHO the E-27 is best considered more of a scaled-down big boat, and the the 25+ (and later E-26) are a bit like large small boats, in a sort of philosophical comparison. This does not in any way reflect on their sea-keeping ability, however.

Thanks to Jeff for the helpful chart, too.

My thoughts.... Not even .02 worth...

Loren

 

[DavidWms]

E27

Thanks, Jeff. That's very helpful to hear from someone who's sailed it and confirms what I expected. BTW, the sail calculator on the E25+ is inaccurate. Its LOA is 25.4 (not 26.67) and LWL is 21.8, not 22.1. I think the E25+ is likely a better choice for lake cruising with light air, although I would still prefer a fin keel over SD. If I were doing coastal cruising, I would definitely pick an E27 over e25+ SD.

I'm also considering an E30+ as well if it passes a survey being done this week. It's some distance and I've only seen pictures. It's a saltwater boat and I was just reading a thread about that earlier this morning on moving one to freshwater. Food for thought.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

That was also true on the E-25 I sailed. The rudder was also hung on the transom. At least it had a electric start so you didn't have to reach out there to pull start it. When backing out of the slip you need to turn the engine in tandem with the rudder. Not a easy boat to maneuver in reverse, although I still have a hard time with prop walk on my skeg hung rudder. That E-25 also had a older 2 stroke mercury, so you had to do the old mixing of oil with the fuel. The transom was cut out though. Check and see if the boat your looking at has the extra long shaft, that might be a little better in heavy seas.

One caveat concerning the outboard on the 25+.
There is a 25+ in our moorage, and its bracket-mount OB is a long ways down over a high-ish transom.
Hard to reach when in the down position and because it's extended out beyond the end of the boat is going to cavitate a lot in a steep chop.

I would much prefer the IB aux. engine in any boat of this size.

Note that the factory OB option on the E-27 had the motor close to the hull via a transom cutout.

Not looking for any "deeper meanings" but IMHO the E-27 is best considered more of a scaled-down big boat, and the the 25+ (and later E-26) are a bit like large small boats, in a sort of philosophical comparison. This does not in any way reflect on their sea-keeping ability, however.

Thanks to Jeff for the helpful chart, too.

My thoughts.... Not even .02 worth...

Loren

 

[DavidWms]

Would you reinstall OMC

Loren,

I agree;I would prefer an inboard. The E25+ originally had an OMC Saildrive that was removed by CO and hull glassed over due to corrosion in the lower unit. They still have it and I understand you could locate a lower unit for the OMC and maybe reinstall. I don't know much about OMC but know some (lots?) badmouth them. Would you consider fixing it and reinstalling?

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Man, the 30+ is a great boat. Much, much faster than the 27's. I crossed the San Pedro Channel to Catalina along with Greg's 30+ "Regulas" and he left me in the dust. I do know that he has to reef a lot earlier than I do with that big main. BTW my E-27 is a shoal draft as well. I was not aware that they made them with a fin keel. Although I have a shoal draft, there is 2900 lbs of lead down there. The nice thing about having only a 3' 11" draft is that I can and have anchored in as little as six feet of water!

Thanks, Jeff. That's very helpful to hear from someone who's sailed it and confirms what I expected. BTW, the sail calculator on the E25+ is inaccurate. Its LOA is 25.4 (not 26.67) and LWL is 21.8, not 22.1. I think the E25+ is likely a better choice for lake cruising with light air, although I would still prefer a fin keel over SD. If I were doing coastal cruising, I would definitely pick an E27 over e25+ SD.

I'm also considering an E30+ as well if it passes a survey being done this week. It's some distance and I've only seen pictures. It's a saltwater boat and I was just reading a thread about that earlier this morning on moving one to freshwater. Food for thought.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Another advantage with my encapsulated shoal draft is that I have no keel bolts to worry about. I really like that, especially with a boat that's approaching 40 years old.

 

[DavidWms]

Outboard

That was also true on the E-25 I sailed. The rudder was also hung on the transom. At least it had a electric start so you didn't have to reach out there to pull start it. When backing out of the slip you need to turn the engine in tandem with the rudder. Not a easy boat to maneuver in reverse, although I still have a hard time with prop walk on my skeg hung rudder. That E-25 also had a older 2 stroke mercury, so you had to do the old mixing of oil with the fuel. The transom was cut out though. Check and see if the boat your looking at has the extra long shaft, that might be a little better in heavy seas.

Here's a pic of the outboard mounted. It is Merc9.9 2 cycle with an electric start with cockpit controls and has a motor mount that is reachable and comes out of water for sailing. He said it is long shaft, although at first it did not look like it to me.

Also, the winches have a blue discoloration around the top. CO said this was part of self-tailing (?) They function and turn fine but that looked odd to me. Any thoughts there?

David

 

[Loren Beach]

Loren,

I agree;I would prefer an inboard. The E25+ originally had an OMC Saildrive that was removed by CO and hull glassed over due to corrosion in the lower unit. They still have it and I understand you could locate a lower unit for the OMC and maybe reinstall. I don't know much about OMC but know some (lots?) badmouth them. Would you consider fixing it and reinstalling?

After three decades, I still await a positive recommendation on an OMC saildrive with its Evinrude two-stroke 15 hp powerhead. Only good thing is that the prop is deep under the boat and in line with the waterline.
Against that - two stroke engine with a large fuel thirst, constant threat of losing the lower unit to electrolysis...
Yetch.


LB

 

[Loren Beach]

Winches in the pix look like someone added those cheap "winchers" to them -- a rubber donut that installs over the top flange of a standard winch. If you treat it just right when you wind the sheet around it, it will sort of selftail.
IMHO: no substitute for an actual selftailing winch at all.

Biased opinions rendered on the hour, cheerfully.


LB

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Are you sure those aren't those blue rubber thingies that supposedly turn a standard winch into a self tailing? Nice looking E-25+, but I would not want to do any extended offshore cruising with that outboard. I had a rig like that on a 22' trailer sailor, got caught in heavy seas in the Santa Barbara Channel coming back from Santa Cruz Island, and using the OB was not an option because it never stayed low enough in the water and would over heat right away.

 

[DavidWms]

You both may be right about the winches but if so, it's the remnants of blue doughnuts as there is a surface coating but nothing I could remove.

The e25+ would be a transition boat for me. Something to lake sail and introduce my kids to sailing until I can get a larger boat. I'm a days drive from the coast and without a trailer, I don't expect to be coastal cruising in this boat. If I did, it would be more coastal "hugging," I'd expect.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Sez New Bern, NC on the transom. That boat was in salt water at one time. You also have a skeg hung rudder. That's not like the E-25 I sailed with the transom hung rudder with the cut out for the OB. All and all, that does show me that boat was designed for a inboard. I still think that OB should be lower in the water to really take advantage of it. IMHO

 

[Loren Beach]

Bear in mind that the 70's E-25 was a trailerable design and not at all like the larger and wider E-25+ that came later.
Same designer, but not so much similarity otherwise.
Note that the E-25+ sort of became the 80's E-26, and does have a strong family resemblance to the 80's family of hulls and the general look of the 28+, 30+, 32-3, etc.

LB

 

[philscho]

Ericson 28+ or 28 is also a good choice

Greetings,

I have owned an older Ericson 25 ('78 ) a Ericson 25 + ( '79 ) and now an Ericson 28+. I would suggest taking a look at what is available in a E 28+ on the used boat websites. The 28+ is really a 30+ with about 8" of the cockpit
cut off. The 28+ has a huge interior for it's size due to the 10'6" beam. A real
plus is the queen size quarter berth. The V-berth is really comfortable for two full sized adults, which I cannot say for the 25+. The 28+ is very fast 28 foot boat, PHRF is about 180-185 so it easily walks away from the E 27 and most other 28' production boats. I have recently seen several 28+ models listed for $12K to $18K which is a great value for a small yacht. I think any of the Ericson models you are considering have wonderful sailing characteristics, as already noted the 27 is a stiffer boat needing more air to get up and go, the 25+ and the 28+ are very good light air boats. Whatever you decide have fun, they are exceptionally well made boats for the money.

Phil Schofield
SV/ Russell James

 

[DavidWms]

Greetings,

I have owned an older Ericson 25 ('78 ) a Ericson 25 + ( '79 ) and now an Ericson 28+. I would suggest taking a look at what is available in a E 28+ on the used boat websites. The 28+ is really a 30+ with about 8" of the cockpit
cut off. The 28+ has a huge interior for it's size due to the 10'6" beam. A real
plus is the queen size quarter berth. The V-berth is really comfortable for two full sized adults, which I cannot say for the 25+. The 28+ is very fast 28 foot boat, PHRF is about 180-185 so it easily walks away from the E 27 and most other 28' production boats. I have recently seen several 28+ models listed for $12K to $18K which is a great value for a small yacht. I think any of the Ericson models you are considering have wonderful sailing characteristics, as already noted the 27 is a stiffer boat needing more air to get up and go, the 25+ and the 28+ are very good light air boats. Whatever you decide have fun, they are exceptionally well made boats for the money.

Phil Schofield
SV/ Russell James

Phil,
Thanks. I'm considering a 1980 E30+ that is under the price range you quote and is being surveyed this week. If it is a good survey, I will definitely try to purchase her and eliminate the "interim" E25+. Agreed on the 25+ V-berth, although I am still impressed with the room on 25+ compared with other 27's I've looked at.

David

 

[Meanolddad]

Hi David

If you can do a 30+ you will have a boat you can own for years. We have had Regulus for almoat 6 years now and could not be happier. As Jeff stated, Regulus has a great huge mainsail. Advantage is Regulus sails really well under main alone. Quite often when "she who does not sail" is aboard we just cruise around like a catboat under main alone. We have put the rail in the water many times and Regulus is always under complete control. We have normal afternoon winds of 20+ knots or more on the nose and Regulus handles them easily. PHRF is around 168, so she is quick and points quite well. Also Jeff pointed out, in light air not many boats can stay anywhere near us. All the berths are good sized, I am 6'2" and 240# and can sleep anywhere on the boat. We looked at a 25+ recently and the v-berth was tiny, my 15 year old daughter was about a foot longer than the berth was.

Hope this helps
Greg

 

[DavidWms]

Hi David

If you can do a 30+ you will have a boat you can own for years. We have had Regulus for almoat 6 years now and could not be happier. As Jeff stated, Regulus has a great huge mainsail. Advantage is Regulus sails really well under main alone. Quite often when "she who does not sail" is aboard we just cruise around like a catboat under main alone. We have put the rail in the water many times and Regulus is always under complete control. We have normal afternoon winds of 20+ knots or more on the nose and Regulus handles them easily. PHRF is around 168, so she is quick and points quite well. Also Jeff pointed out, in light air not many boats can stay anywhere near us. All the berths are good sized, I am 6'2" and 240# and can sleep anywhere on the boat. We looked at a 25+ recently and the v-berth was tiny, my 15 year old daughter was about a foot longer than the berth was.

Hope this helps
Greg

Greg, Helps? It whets my appetite more than all the other reviews I've read. Now I REALLY hope the survey comes back clean. The downside is, if I get her, I'll have to bug you for some advice.

David

 

[DavidWms]

Problem areas to look for?

Well, my surveyor for the 30+ backed out due to an injury but I've located another to do a walk-around next week. Now that you guys have have me pumped up about this boat, could I trouble you for a list of any potential problem areas I should ask him to pay special attention to? CO says that the boat was refit in 2003 by topnotch mechanic/PO who put a new Universal 20HP diesel, among other things, which I've confirmed through an old online ad I found. The boat is on the hard so diesel cannot be started right now.