E-27 exhaust tubing

agraziano23

Member II
before and after of the exhaust tubing for my E-27. The before (rusted one) has an obvious flaw that the water from the engine goes into the engine during start up because there is no loop in the tubing. I attempted to fix this by constructing a new exhaust. I need your opinion to make sure my thinking is correct before I install it. In my version the exhaust water goes into the downward leg thus will not get into the engine. Also note the attachment to the
final rubber hose to the transom is lower that the original one, will this be a problem? I still think it's above the waterline but won't know for sure until I get to the boat next week end.

DSC02549.JPG
 

agraziano23

Member II
Thanks Emerald. I saw your link a while back, and that's where I first got the impression that my original setup was wrong.
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
I just wonder why you have so much steel pipe in your exhaust system? The only metal in mine is a 90 degree bronze elbow connected with exhaust hose between the engine exhaust riser and the muffler. From there to the transom through-hull it is all exhaust hose, including the loop.

Considering the amount of flex and motion that goes on in the boat, I don't think I would want anything that rigid.
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
agraziano23 Emerald's exhaust vs. stainless.

Personally, I like what a fellow E31 owner did with his home-made exhaust he made for the Yanmar that powers it (hull #19). It's not too much different from what David (Emerald) put together for his former E27 but for the fact that it's larger pipe and stainless steel. I just have to think that it would hold up a lot longer than galvanized pipe and if it were me, I'd buy the time with the pricier pipe. Repairing exhaust systems, possibly in the field doesn't hold much appeal. I can't seem to be able to reduce the size of an image enough to post to this list so I'll forward what I'm talking about to David in the hope that he can do the magic and post them to the list. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, marina del Rey, CA
 

Emerald

Moderator
Glyn's Pics

Here are the pictures Glyn spoke of. It's a nice simple setup.

I should note that when I put together my exhaust which I reference in my prior post, some of what I did was a combination of matching theory with what I had e.g. I knew I was after a water lift muffler, but wasn't set out with the Stainless Vetus in mind that I used. It could equally as well have been something like what is in the pictures from Glyn here.
 

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agraziano23

Member II
I tried copying what was originally in the boat plus moving the water injection to the down side of the pipe rather than the upside thus avoiding water getting into the exhaust valves during the first few seconds of start up.
The height of the thing may be overkill, but I believe it's that way so that the last piece, where the final rubber hose connect to is above the thruhull. I'm looking at all the solutions that you all have posted to get an idea of another possible solution of possibly using less metal. Originally I was planning to anchor the whole thing to the bulkhead using a heavy duty automotive "muffler" hanger.
 

thomasnwalshiii

New Member
The riser you posted the link to seems to be just a muffler? A riser setup seems expensive. I am currently making the same setup as Emerald which the previous owner must have installed many years ago and i have never had any issues with it except for when one of the elbows broke apart (stainless may be a good idea instead of galvanized steel). I have attached a diagram that I just made with all the dimensions. Let me know if these are similar to yours.
 

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Desiderata

Member II
OMG......We are in the middle of replacing the muffler on our '78 E-27 with a Yanmar YSB-8 and the whole exhaust system. The mechanic got us a muffler that has 2" in and out ports and gave us some 2 in. flex hose to go from the muffler to the mixing elbow (which is 1"1/2). We think the stern through hull is 1" 5/8s. He also said we could use pvc piping and some fittings that have hose clamps on them already (Home Depot carries,) to up and down size the pipe? Can we? We hoped he would do the job, but became so busy and I guess we jumped the gun ripping out the old leaky muffler.
 

Emerald

Moderator
There is no place for PVC anywhere on a boat that touches sea water, let alone your exhaust, IMHO. What you can do and get at a good hardware store (Home Depot always should have this, but always seems to be missing a piece) is a galvanized iron piece called a reducing coupling and then some short galvanized pipe nipples for each side of the reducer to hose clamp your marine exhaust hose to. I stress marine exhaust hose because you need to use the right stuff here, not just any rubber hose.

Take a close look at the exit from your mixing elbow. If it's like several I've seen on older Yanmar's, it's threaded for a piece of nipple to go in for a 1 1/2 inch hose, but you can also slide a 2" hose over the OD of the elbow. If your new water lift muffler is 2" and you've got this style elbow (you really probably do), the best thing would be to go to 2" all the way, and just enlarge the exit in the transom. Installing a new exhaust fitting in the transom is not hard. You can enlarge the existing hole with a hole saw easily enough - lay the new size blade into the old hole at a slight angle so that the edge of the old hole holds the side of the saw stable until it can bite and cut in - you won't stay on the exact same center, but it doesn't matter for this application.

Let me know if you need clarification on the above - I'm not proof reading tonight :cool:
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
A cautionary note about galvanized pipe.

David and all, Years before owning our boat, someone had used galvanized plumbing to reduce the Yanmar 3GMF exhaust hose from 2" to 1 1/2" which was the original with the Yanmar 2QM15 as it led to the original 1 1/2" muffler fittings. This reduction was clearly made up of bits and pieces from the plumbing section of a hardware store. Virtually for years, I always had a salt water puddle beneath the prop shaft packing gland and despite numerous times giving attention to that area, I could never get the water to stop appearing. Fortunately for me while in the slip with engine off, I chanced to bump the 2" hose near the nipple immediately down stream of the reducer only to have it completely separate from the galvanized nipple. Close inspection was breath taking. Without a clue that anything was going on, being hidden from view by the hose and clamps, the threaded end (read ungalvanized) of the nipple had been merrily rusting completely away comprising about 20% to 25% of the threads. There were mere fractions of an inch remaining before the rusting would have broken free from the hose and clamps on its own. The result is anyone's guess but I know there would have been a lot of water entering the inside of the hull along with great amounts of exhaust gases. Now I'm not saying not to use galvanized pipe but if it were me, I'd cut those exposed threads off first before mating pipe to hose. Also, smart money would check that joint for signs of water drips, rust, etc on a periodic basis. That said, there was not even a hint that my threads were rusting/rotting away with each use of the engine because it was all taking place far from view, yikes!! No more puddle now by the way, mystery solved. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, cA
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
A cautionary note, part deux.

All, Upon identifying the nasty problem, I got rid of all the Home Depot plumbing, bought enough 2" hose and a new Vernalift muffler to completely replace the entire exhaust system including a new 2" bronze exhaust flange. The result is that the motor breathes better now and it's been redone the right way which is how it should have been done in the first place. Anyone want a perfectly good 1 1/2" bronze exhaust flange? Glyn
 

Emerald

Moderator
yes, you are correct - galvanized pipe has a ilfe span, and it's hard to gauge as use and water conditions vary greatly and impact it accordingly, and then there's the quality of the pipe to start with. Inspection is necessary over time. An alternative is to use something like the Centek fittings:

http://www.centekindustries.com/fittings.html
 

Desiderata

Member II
Vernatube makes exhaust tubing and fittings from fiberglass. If we go with the 2" flex hose right onto the mixing elbow?, then to the muffler, then 2" Marine hose out of the muffer to a Venatube loop and a 45, back to 2" Marine exhaust hose to the stern, where we would like to reduced to 1 5/8" so we could use the existing stern fitting, Its an old brass pipe looking thing, we like the look of. Do not know if you can mix the fiberglass fitting with the marine hose. I will call Vernatube tomorrow.
Thanks Cheri and Mike
 

Maine Sail

Member III
OMG......We are in the middle of replacing the muffler on our '78 E-27 with a Yanmar YSB-8 and the whole exhaust system. The mechanic got us a muffler that has 2" in and out ports and gave us some 2 in. flex hose to go from the muffler to the mixing elbow (which is 1"1/2). We think the stern through hull is 1" 5/8s. He also said we could use pvc piping and some fittings that have hose clamps on them already (Home Depot carries,) to up and down size the pipe? Can we? We hoped he would do the job, but became so busy and I guess we jumped the gun ripping out the old leaky muffler.


1) This guy is not a "mechanic", at least not a marine "mechanic"!

2) No you can not use PVC in an exhaust unless you like boat fires..


Your exhaust ID should be sized for Yanmar's suggestions with as few elbows as you can get away with. Flexible wire reinforced hose should be used between the water lift muffler and exhaust riser and the transom outlet. Bushing up/down just leaves more room for clamp failures and potential leak points..

How "mechanics" like this stay in business always amazes me???:rolleyes:
 
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Desiderata

Member II
Glyn, You're the man! Where do we get a new 2' bronze exhaust flange.

We don't have an ant-siphon loop, we should have this right?
I think I am glad the mechanic was to busy to do the job, and we are learning a lot and saving $$$. Thanks Cheri and Mike
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Proper exhaust plumbing.

Cheri & Mike, I replaced a flakey exhaust loop with a really nice, corrosion-free Vetus Air Vent V that has never given me a moments trouble http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/c95187af#/c95187af/64. It has a vinyl tube (think fish tank air line and you've got it) that I have discretely led to the top of the bilge. Virtually no water emerges from that tube so it's not a safety problem and makes installation even simpler than a hull fitting. Despite what the maker says, I have NEVER had the valve clog with salt crystals. I bought my 2" exhaust flange from Buck Algonquin http://www.buckalgonquin.com/pages/ProductPages/exhaust/tran_exh_stra_page.html Email me back channel and I'll send you a fistful of images with some suggestions regarding cutting the hole larger and how to install the EXPENSIVE exhaust flange by yourself without having Davie Jones claim it. Go for it all, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA glynjudson@roadrunner.com
 

Desiderata

Member II
how may anti-siphons?

Thanks Gly,
We've spoken to Buck Algonquin and are ready to order the 2" stern flange. They definately had the best deal on them , so thanks for that! The polished stainless version is about $30 more than the bronze one, tempting, but I'm unsure of how much maintanence (polishing) it might require so near the water. It sure is pretty tho.
The question we have for you is derived from Pg. 662 of the 2010 West marine catalogue. The "Exhaust System Basics" diagram for below the waterline application shows an anti-siphon loop in the 2" exhaust tubing near the water exit. This requires an additional 180 degree fitting (we're likely to use the fiberglass "Vernatube" stuff) with rubber Series 250 marine water/exhaust hose (with wire). It also shows a smaller anti-siphon arrangement attached to the "manifold" (which we call the "mixing elbow"). Do we need both? Any photos you have will be appreciated.
Thanks!
Mike & Cheri
mikethepetsitter@yahoo.com
 
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