Dumb Question Alert: Liabilities of doing your own Maintenance

knoisewater

Member I
The day has sadly arrived where I am selling my Ericson 35-2, and I've done a lot of maintenance myself. Can the next owner sue my ass back to the stone age if anything fails? Is this liability limited if I simply put "as-is" on the bill of sale? Anyone have any experience with this?
 
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tenders

Innocent Bystander
It is my understanding that the phrase “as is, where is” exists to protect sellers of all kinds of items (boats, cars, etc.) from this possibility, and to distinguish from things that are warranted. At some point, and at some price, the buyer accepts the condition of the item regardless of how it got that way, and takes the risk that the whole thing falls apart as the ink is drying on the bill of sale.

So, who did the repair is irrelevant in an unwarranted sale. On the other hand, who offers the guarantee means everything when there is a warranty. If you sell the boat and agree to deliver it to the new owner’s slip 100 miles down the coast in the same condition as when purchased...that’s a different story.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Interesting question and not at all 'dumb'...
So I sent the thread over to a surveyor, since she has inspected and documented hundreds of vessels over the decades.
No surprise in her common-sense answer, but perhaps worth sharing (IMHO). Her surveys are renown for being detailed and a valuable learning tool/guide for new owners... i.e. Lots of good detail and very little boilerplate.

"Not a dumb question at all. My very intelligent opinion (and I am a Very Stable Genius) is the same as yours in one respect, and that is that all (99.999%) boats are owner modified. But, as owners, we certainly have that right. And, there is no license or special training that anyone is required to have to show competency.

The best analogy is a home owner. Nearly all (99.999%) are owner modified. And, much like boats, home building is very much a cottage industry with thousand of builders building millions of different homes. Homes are different in only a small way from pleasure boats and that is that major modifications on homes within certain jurisdictions require permits and some inspections to confirm the modifications met existing codes.

In boats, like off-road cars, there really are no standards or applicable regulations. And, as long as the person performing the modifications or repairs is not charging for their services, I know of no cases where a private individual lost in court for a substandard modification if the modification was made in good faith. Boat owners are not even bound by good-faith disclosure to the best of my knowledge.

If substandard repairs are performed by a business, then there is liability attached. The rule of thumb used in court is the ABYC standards and USCG regs. Don’t be cutting standards if you are profiting from your work.

A person who could (and should) be held liable, is the dirtbag who buys a wreck of a boat and flips it by only making cosmetic repairs and hiding the damage. I have seen hurricane total loss boats that were sold as salvage, transported across the country, polished up, some cheesy repairs made, and resold for a huge profit. The unlucky buyer is left with a boat requiring more repairs than it is worth or has a failure that results in injury or death. There is liability lurking there.

Hopefully the potential buyers have a good surveyor on their team.

Of course, this is America. People sue anyone for anything. So, it doesn’t matter what you do or don’t do. Just by breathing, you put yourself at risk. So, have fun, modify your boat to put a smile on your face. The risk will always exist to some degree whether you do or don’t."
 
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u079721

Contributing Partner
I've been watching a few videos by an attorney (Steve Lehto on YouTube) who has advice about buying used cars that is perhaps relevant. There is one exception to the "as is" rule when buying something used, and that is when you can show there was deliberate concealment of a known flaw. With cars he gives an example of an owner who filled the tranny case with super heavy oil to hide the knock of a damaged tranny, which then failed a week after the sale. Since there was no reason for the heavy oil to be used in the tranny, the original owner lost in court when the buyer sued. Hard to imagine anything comparable on a boat that wouldn't be caught by a good surveyor, like poor wiring, or no hose clamps on through hulls.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
As a practical matter it's more likely a buyer's check will bounce than he'll sue you.

Investigate the buyer as you would a previous owner. Any deal should make both sides happy.

EBay especially can provide a stream of lost souls. Delusion makes for a bad buyer.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
I always enjoy the Craigslist adds where they're willing to trade boat-for-camper, etc. Imagine the convoluted lawsuits of trading a rotted-deck boat for a rodent infested camper. Who wins (other than the lawyers)?
 

Don Smith

Member II
I'm not a lawyer. My non-lawyer understanding is that in terms of liabilities, there's a big difference between a private party selling something and someone who is in the business of selling the item. By example, if you sell your used boat there's probably little legal liability absent fraud on your part. However, if you buy old boats and fix them up with the intent of then selling them at a profit you may be deemed to be in the business of selling boats, which probably increases your potential liability exposures.


Captain Don
E26, Gitana
 
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