mohawkelly
Junior Member
Would a diesel replacement for an Atomic 4 be much noiser?
Diesel vs Atomic 4 noise
- Thread starter mohawkelly
- Start date
Gary Freeburg
Member II
The diesels ( 8hp and 16hp) in the boats I have owned are noiser than the Atomic 4. Also, they vibrate a great deal more.
Gary Freeburg
E 27
Gary Freeburg
E 27
Jeff Asbury
Principal Partner
Not too noisy if you insulate the engine compartment well. If I needed to re power I would go diesel over gas any day. Four reasons , reliability, range, reputation and safety. Just my two cents. I like Yanmars, they can last a lifetime if maintained well.
clohman
Member II
I have the Universal 25 Diesel on our 1986 32-III. I replaced the noise insulation on the engine cover and need to add some more around the sink and cabinet door beneath the galley. The noise is not an issue from the cockpit. Until I complete the noise supression, the noise is noticeable down below, but not annoying. The benefits of safety (no gas fumes), economy (2.5 hours / gallon of diesel), reliability and simplicity outweigh any concerns over noise - in my opinion.
NateHanson
Sustaining Member
I think Safety and Reliability weigh very heavily in favor of replacing with Diesel. Gas makes me nervous on a boat, and all the electrical components on a gas auxiliary don't fare as well in a salt environment. The noise issue can be addressed with proper insulation, but blowing up is much more annoying.
Hi,
Gotta make some waves here playing devil's advocate and having had both. It's just not that simple
The Atomic 4 is much quieter. There is nothing inherently wrong with the reliability of the Atomic 4 compared to a diesel, and one could very easily argue that the diesel has a much more complex fuel system requiring injection which can be ruined by even the tiniest amount of dirt in your fuel. The A4 uses one of the simplest most reliable fuel systems in the world - a carburetor. Start looking around at all the posts on folks who changed their diesel fuel filter and couldn't get it to run again because of prime problems.
Diesels operate at a much higher compression ratio (like 20:1 instead of 8:1), so the load a diesel handles internally is much higher than the A4. Better do your oil changes and maintenance on the diesel (just like the A4). Neither the A4 or a properly maintained diesel should have any issues of catastrophic failure e.g. throwing a rod.
Regardless of the power plant in your boat, if you carry any fuel source e.g. alcohol for a stove, gas for a dinghy, propane etc., you better run your blowers and go through the same safety drill you do on a gas powered boat. While it is very rare, there has actually been documented a case where a diesel caused another fuel source to explode on starting.
Bottom line, if your boat is already powered by an Atomic 4, unless you just have a bunch of money to spend (like $5K-$10K), and really need long range cruising under power, I'd highly recommend keeping (or fixing) the Atomic 4. I have found running A4s for as little as $500 ready to drop in and use. I am just finishing a full rebuild on one, and we're coming in under $1K for all parts and machine work. I can assure you there is no drop in replacement other than the original engine, and you need to be prepared to work on everything from stringers and cuttig holes in bulkheads, to playing with your prop if you switch from the A4 to the diesel.
So, diesels are noisier, get better mileage, don't have as dangerous a fuel source. A4's are simpler, smoother, quieter. Tough choice, honestly. My own quandry is that I have an under powered diesel (Yanmar 2QM15 - 2 cyl/15hp) in my Independence 31 (12K displacement with extra ballast), and have a nice powerful A4 sitting in my garage. If it weren't for the fact that I know what a pain switching from one physical engine layout to another layout is, I'd drop the A4 in and get the power I want. However, I don't feel like the hastle of reworking stringers, a new fuel system, etc., so for now, I'll do another year with the tiny diesel, and may end up selling the A4.
A final thought. I think the biggest plus for a diesel that has not been mentioned is it's ability to run without electricity. This has more appeal to me than any other aspect. I am more worried about being on an extended cruise and having an electrical problem e.g. something is left on, the battery switch was left on "both" and you wake up one morning to stone dead batteries. With the diesel, if you are set with a hand crank, you should be able to get it running, charge batteries etc. Another of my paranoid scenarios would be the lightning strike that blows out the electronics on the boat, but the little diesel might just still run and get me where I need to go....
Good luck on your project. Don't be scared of your A4,and if you do the switch to a diesel, keep us posted on how it goes and what you think when all done.
-David
Independence 31
Emerald
Gotta make some waves here playing devil's advocate and having had both. It's just not that simple
The Atomic 4 is much quieter. There is nothing inherently wrong with the reliability of the Atomic 4 compared to a diesel, and one could very easily argue that the diesel has a much more complex fuel system requiring injection which can be ruined by even the tiniest amount of dirt in your fuel. The A4 uses one of the simplest most reliable fuel systems in the world - a carburetor. Start looking around at all the posts on folks who changed their diesel fuel filter and couldn't get it to run again because of prime problems.
Diesels operate at a much higher compression ratio (like 20:1 instead of 8:1), so the load a diesel handles internally is much higher than the A4. Better do your oil changes and maintenance on the diesel (just like the A4). Neither the A4 or a properly maintained diesel should have any issues of catastrophic failure e.g. throwing a rod.
Regardless of the power plant in your boat, if you carry any fuel source e.g. alcohol for a stove, gas for a dinghy, propane etc., you better run your blowers and go through the same safety drill you do on a gas powered boat. While it is very rare, there has actually been documented a case where a diesel caused another fuel source to explode on starting.
Bottom line, if your boat is already powered by an Atomic 4, unless you just have a bunch of money to spend (like $5K-$10K), and really need long range cruising under power, I'd highly recommend keeping (or fixing) the Atomic 4. I have found running A4s for as little as $500 ready to drop in and use. I am just finishing a full rebuild on one, and we're coming in under $1K for all parts and machine work. I can assure you there is no drop in replacement other than the original engine, and you need to be prepared to work on everything from stringers and cuttig holes in bulkheads, to playing with your prop if you switch from the A4 to the diesel.
So, diesels are noisier, get better mileage, don't have as dangerous a fuel source. A4's are simpler, smoother, quieter. Tough choice, honestly. My own quandry is that I have an under powered diesel (Yanmar 2QM15 - 2 cyl/15hp) in my Independence 31 (12K displacement with extra ballast), and have a nice powerful A4 sitting in my garage. If it weren't for the fact that I know what a pain switching from one physical engine layout to another layout is, I'd drop the A4 in and get the power I want. However, I don't feel like the hastle of reworking stringers, a new fuel system, etc., so for now, I'll do another year with the tiny diesel, and may end up selling the A4.
A final thought. I think the biggest plus for a diesel that has not been mentioned is it's ability to run without electricity. This has more appeal to me than any other aspect. I am more worried about being on an extended cruise and having an electrical problem e.g. something is left on, the battery switch was left on "both" and you wake up one morning to stone dead batteries. With the diesel, if you are set with a hand crank, you should be able to get it running, charge batteries etc. Another of my paranoid scenarios would be the lightning strike that blows out the electronics on the boat, but the little diesel might just still run and get me where I need to go....
Good luck on your project. Don't be scared of your A4,and if you do the switch to a diesel, keep us posted on how it goes and what you think when all done.
-David
Independence 31
Emerald
Art Mullinax
Member III
Diesel Fuel Pumps.
Question concerning Davids comments on hand cranking (starting) a diesel? Don't some of the newer diesels have an electric fuel pump? If the batteries are dead, how would you crank it? My knowledge of boat diesels is very limited!
Art M.
71/E29 (with original A4)
Question concerning Davids comments on hand cranking (starting) a diesel? Don't some of the newer diesels have an electric fuel pump? If the batteries are dead, how would you crank it? My knowledge of boat diesels is very limited!
Art M.
71/E29 (with original A4)
Jeff Asbury
Principal Partner
So, you want to hand-crank your engine?
From Yanmar Help.com
http://www.yanmarhelp.com/o_hndcrnk.htm
So, you want to hand-crank your engine? You want to know how to do it? WHY?*Hand cranking is a skill that our fathers needed to get the Tin Lizzie, farm water pump etc., going. It has been lost in the passage of time. Like running boards on cars and kick starters on reliable motorbikes, hand-cranking has had its day.*Hand cranking requires practice.
My first piece of unwanted advice is to avoid hand cranking at all costs! It is unhealthy! It can bring on a heart attack, break your thumb or bark your knuckles. None of these activities are welcome at any time, let alone 400 miles offshore.*There is no substitute for a well installed and well maintained engine.*So, you still want to do it? OK!**If you can't do each one of the following without fail, you are deluding yourself. If you can say yes to each question go ahead and crank your engine.
1. Are you physically fit with a strong cranking hand and arm, no back or leg trouble?
2. Is the engine supplied with a cranking mechanism from the manufacturer?
3. At any time you may need to crank the engine can you remove the engine cover, stand in front of the engine in a braced position in a heaving seaway and rotate the engine with an unmodified crank handle a full 360 degrees without touching any part of the boat with any part of your body?
4. Yes? Looks like you're ready!
NOTE: The fuel injection pump timing is no longer optimized for hand cranking the engine so it is a little more difficult than cranking an engine that is designed primarily to be hand cranked.
OK, brief your for'ad hand on how to open and close the decompression levers. Begin by asking them to open them all so you can easily rotate the engine. Tell them to drop one lever when you get up to cranking speed. Don't warn you when! When it fires twice they can drop the next lever... then the next lever. If your levers are connected by a bar, remove it for this exercise, it is for electric starting with a low battery.*Now it's your turn. Fuel is on and bled, sea cock is OFF. I hope you are not bare foot or wearing those 'Samoan Safety boots' - thongs, jandals or sandals? Do some body stretches. Stand in front of the engine and grasp the handle with your fingers around the handle and your thumb pointing along the handle, toward the engine. Start cranking as fast as you can, remember, your job is to pull the engine through the first compression, so as soon as you feel any restriction PULL HARD, don't stop until the engine is going faster than you can crank. The tendency is to slacken off, which is why I recommend the 'cranker' doesn't know when the levers are being dropped for the first few times you start the engine like this. Once you get the knack it is a lot easier.*Now that the engine is running and the emergency has been resolved, very lightly oil the handle, wrap it in an oily rag and seal it in a plastic bag. Stow in a safe place till you need it again, in about 20 years time...
From Yanmar Help.com
http://www.yanmarhelp.com/o_hndcrnk.htm
So, you want to hand-crank your engine? You want to know how to do it? WHY?*Hand cranking is a skill that our fathers needed to get the Tin Lizzie, farm water pump etc., going. It has been lost in the passage of time. Like running boards on cars and kick starters on reliable motorbikes, hand-cranking has had its day.*Hand cranking requires practice.
My first piece of unwanted advice is to avoid hand cranking at all costs! It is unhealthy! It can bring on a heart attack, break your thumb or bark your knuckles. None of these activities are welcome at any time, let alone 400 miles offshore.*There is no substitute for a well installed and well maintained engine.*So, you still want to do it? OK!**If you can't do each one of the following without fail, you are deluding yourself. If you can say yes to each question go ahead and crank your engine.
1. Are you physically fit with a strong cranking hand and arm, no back or leg trouble?
2. Is the engine supplied with a cranking mechanism from the manufacturer?
3. At any time you may need to crank the engine can you remove the engine cover, stand in front of the engine in a braced position in a heaving seaway and rotate the engine with an unmodified crank handle a full 360 degrees without touching any part of the boat with any part of your body?
4. Yes? Looks like you're ready!
NOTE: The fuel injection pump timing is no longer optimized for hand cranking the engine so it is a little more difficult than cranking an engine that is designed primarily to be hand cranked.
OK, brief your for'ad hand on how to open and close the decompression levers. Begin by asking them to open them all so you can easily rotate the engine. Tell them to drop one lever when you get up to cranking speed. Don't warn you when! When it fires twice they can drop the next lever... then the next lever. If your levers are connected by a bar, remove it for this exercise, it is for electric starting with a low battery.*Now it's your turn. Fuel is on and bled, sea cock is OFF. I hope you are not bare foot or wearing those 'Samoan Safety boots' - thongs, jandals or sandals? Do some body stretches. Stand in front of the engine and grasp the handle with your fingers around the handle and your thumb pointing along the handle, toward the engine. Start cranking as fast as you can, remember, your job is to pull the engine through the first compression, so as soon as you feel any restriction PULL HARD, don't stop until the engine is going faster than you can crank. The tendency is to slacken off, which is why I recommend the 'cranker' doesn't know when the levers are being dropped for the first few times you start the engine like this. Once you get the knack it is a lot easier.*Now that the engine is running and the emergency has been resolved, very lightly oil the handle, wrap it in an oily rag and seal it in a plastic bag. Stow in a safe place till you need it again, in about 20 years time...
Hi Art,
on most of the boat engines I've seen (even the Atomic 4) there is a provision for a hand crank. Look at the forward end of your A4 and you'll see a hole in the flywheel cover, and if you peer in the hole, you'll see a shaft with a pair of ears for the hand crank. What I will also say is that Emerald is the first boat I've owned where she still had the hand crank on board...
Regarding fuel pumps, my statement is assuming a mechanical fuel pump in the system. It is quite possible that you could have an electric pump on a diesel, and if it is the only pump, you would indeed be dependent on having electricity. Of note, I have what I believe is not that uncommon a retrofit of an electric pump in addition to the mechanical pump. The electric is at the tank and was installed by the prior owner. It is very handy for bleeding lines after replacing filters
Do note that ABYC does not recommend having electric fuel pumps located far away from the engine. They want the output line from the pump to be under 48 inches to minimize the amount of pressurized fuel line. Check the bottom of this page for some more info on it:
http://www.abycinc.org/news/faq.cfm
-David
Independence 31
Emerald
on most of the boat engines I've seen (even the Atomic 4) there is a provision for a hand crank. Look at the forward end of your A4 and you'll see a hole in the flywheel cover, and if you peer in the hole, you'll see a shaft with a pair of ears for the hand crank. What I will also say is that Emerald is the first boat I've owned where she still had the hand crank on board...
Regarding fuel pumps, my statement is assuming a mechanical fuel pump in the system. It is quite possible that you could have an electric pump on a diesel, and if it is the only pump, you would indeed be dependent on having electricity. Of note, I have what I believe is not that uncommon a retrofit of an electric pump in addition to the mechanical pump. The electric is at the tank and was installed by the prior owner. It is very handy for bleeding lines after replacing filters
Do note that ABYC does not recommend having electric fuel pumps located far away from the engine. They want the output line from the pump to be under 48 inches to minimize the amount of pressurized fuel line. Check the bottom of this page for some more info on it:
http://www.abycinc.org/news/faq.cfm
-David
Independence 31
Emerald
Hi Jeff,
I absolutely love your description of hand cranking the diesel. I never said it was easy, did I?
You seem to know the sequence so well - I'm guessing you've had this joy before?
It's like heaving to, better try it before you need it, as when you need it ain' the time to start learning it.
Makes me think about starting my Norton Commando motorcycles. I am a lanky 6'1" wieghing in somewhere in the 135 lb range. Just like hand cranking the diesel, get it all perfect, give it all you've got, and hope it doesn't kick back at you and take your arm off (diesel), or leave you limping the next day as your foot just took a whallop (Norton).
And yes, if I didn't cut out the bottom of the front of my engine compartment on Emerald, I wouldn't be able to swing that hand crank 360, and even then keeping my knuckles in tact is a close one...
and yes, Ben, you are correct, I really ment this ability to run the diesel without electricity as the all out emergency scenario when there is no other choice
-David
Independence 31
Emerald
I absolutely love your description of hand cranking the diesel. I never said it was easy, did I?
You seem to know the sequence so well - I'm guessing you've had this joy before?It's like heaving to, better try it before you need it, as when you need it ain' the time to start learning it.
Makes me think about starting my Norton Commando motorcycles. I am a lanky 6'1" wieghing in somewhere in the 135 lb range. Just like hand cranking the diesel, get it all perfect, give it all you've got, and hope it doesn't kick back at you and take your arm off (diesel), or leave you limping the next day as your foot just took a whallop (Norton).
And yes, if I didn't cut out the bottom of the front of my engine compartment on Emerald, I wouldn't be able to swing that hand crank 360, and even then keeping my knuckles in tact is a close one...
and yes, Ben, you are correct, I really ment this ability to run the diesel without electricity as the all out emergency scenario when there is no other choice
-David
Independence 31
Emerald
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Randy Rutledge
Sustaining Member
Prefilling filters
It is a good idea to pre fill oil filters aswell to prevent dry bearings on startup.
I am running an A4 in my E29 and I love it. I have had an inboard gas engine in boats since 1982 (power boat) follow the rules and you will be safe. Sniff test a must for total safety.
I would not have had a shot at my boat if it had had diesel power and I passed it by for months myself. Glad I bought it and wouldn't change the engine.
It is a good idea to pre fill oil filters aswell to prevent dry bearings on startup.
I am running an A4 in my E29 and I love it. I have had an inboard gas engine in boats since 1982 (power boat) follow the rules and you will be safe. Sniff test a must for total safety.
I would not have had a shot at my boat if it had had diesel power and I passed it by for months myself. Glad I bought it and wouldn't change the engine.
Mindscape
Member III
Another 2 cents
Having had both, I'd vote for the diesel hands down, based on range alone. Both require the correct prevenative maint. The safety issue is a personal one - there are zillions of gas powered power boats out there. Noise - again somewhat personal - although I'd concede the diesel is a louder, but we found the noise of the A4 just as annoying, they both make more noise than sails! (most of the time...). But for the same fuel load you can go a lot further with a diesel, carry less to the start line or have more back up for a cruise.
Having had both, I'd vote for the diesel hands down, based on range alone. Both require the correct prevenative maint. The safety issue is a personal one - there are zillions of gas powered power boats out there. Noise - again somewhat personal - although I'd concede the diesel is a louder, but we found the noise of the A4 just as annoying, they both make more noise than sails! (most of the time...). But for the same fuel load you can go a lot further with a diesel, carry less to the start line or have more back up for a cruise.
Bill Sanborn
Member III
Hand cranking an A4
An A4 is a piece of cake to hand crank. I have done it twice for practice and once for real.
Keep in mind that "dead" batteries usually aren't. They are usually too discharged to run the starter. Usually they will recover a small amount if they just set for a hour or so. You won't recover enough of a charge to crank the starter but you will get enough to generate a spark and to get the alternator running.
The bowl in the carborateur contains enough fuel to run the engine for a short period. As soon as the alternator kicks in the fuel pump runs.
Lost a fuel pump? In an emergency you can siphon gas straight in to the carborateur thru the connection where the fuel pump is connected.
You can also flash the alternator by hooking up a bunch of flashlight batteries in series. This is more useful for diesels than gas since the gas engine won't start without some voltage.
An A4 is a piece of cake to hand crank. I have done it twice for practice and once for real.
Keep in mind that "dead" batteries usually aren't. They are usually too discharged to run the starter. Usually they will recover a small amount if they just set for a hour or so. You won't recover enough of a charge to crank the starter but you will get enough to generate a spark and to get the alternator running.
The bowl in the carborateur contains enough fuel to run the engine for a short period. As soon as the alternator kicks in the fuel pump runs.
Lost a fuel pump? In an emergency you can siphon gas straight in to the carborateur thru the connection where the fuel pump is connected.
You can also flash the alternator by hooking up a bunch of flashlight batteries in series. This is more useful for diesels than gas since the gas engine won't start without some voltage.
Atomic 4
I must share my Atomic 4 expierence with you. I purchased a 1975 E29 this year that had sat on the hard for 6 years. It was flooded and the A4 was under water. She was in some sorry shape. I got the boat drained and the A4 oil/water mix drained also. I am lazy with lots of shade tree mechanic expierence and didnt want to attempt pulling the motor. I have never owned a sailboat with a inboard engine before so I used some of my old car engine expierence and filled all the cylanders and pan with marvel mystery oil. I let it sit for over a month like that while I got the boat cleaned and ready for her big splash. After her launch (she didnt sink Woo Hoo) I started working on my engine. I drained the pan and rebuilt the distributor, carb , starter, altornater, fuel pump, and last but not least wiring and panel. The proud day came when we went to start her. She came to life for a few seconds (the joy) but then stalled out(the saddness). This went on for what seemed like forever. We rebuilt the carborator 2 more times, checked timing, verified all movement of parts and still no running beyond a few seconds. I was ready to call it quits when(remember I never owned a inboard) my father in law found a artical about clogged water mufflers. Well the lights clicked on and I thought how could i miss that. There was water coming out of the back tube so I thought that meant it worked. WRONG. We cleared the exaust and now she runs as strong as ever. Needless to say I love the A4. They are solid bullet proof engines that run real nice when you figure them out.
All that is good,
Wes Zimmerman
1975 E29
Grand Lake OK
I must share my Atomic 4 expierence with you. I purchased a 1975 E29 this year that had sat on the hard for 6 years. It was flooded and the A4 was under water. She was in some sorry shape. I got the boat drained and the A4 oil/water mix drained also. I am lazy with lots of shade tree mechanic expierence and didnt want to attempt pulling the motor. I have never owned a sailboat with a inboard engine before so I used some of my old car engine expierence and filled all the cylanders and pan with marvel mystery oil. I let it sit for over a month like that while I got the boat cleaned and ready for her big splash. After her launch (she didnt sink Woo Hoo) I started working on my engine. I drained the pan and rebuilt the distributor, carb , starter, altornater, fuel pump, and last but not least wiring and panel. The proud day came when we went to start her. She came to life for a few seconds (the joy) but then stalled out(the saddness). This went on for what seemed like forever. We rebuilt the carborator 2 more times, checked timing, verified all movement of parts and still no running beyond a few seconds. I was ready to call it quits when(remember I never owned a inboard) my father in law found a artical about clogged water mufflers. Well the lights clicked on and I thought how could i miss that. There was water coming out of the back tube so I thought that meant it worked. WRONG. We cleared the exaust and now she runs as strong as ever. Needless to say I love the A4. They are solid bullet proof engines that run real nice when you figure them out.
All that is good,
Wes Zimmerman
1975 E29
Grand Lake OK
jmoses
Member III
A-4 vs Diesel
The debate continious.....
However, if one stops to think about it, any engine will be unreliable and bronken down if not properly maintained, looked after or is abused. If one did not maintain or look after their A-4, a diesel will only be more expensive to repair if similarly uncared for - just give it time.
Since this is a throw-away society (i.e. USA), tossing out a gas engine for a diesel and spending close to $10,000 bucks to do it (yes, realistically when it's all said and done - see below), seems to be a viable option for many boaters. To each there own.
Personally, I have had no problems with my E-35 MKII's 1972 A-4. Granted, I resurected it from the previous owner's negelct, but in return, it has offered 5 years of trouble free service. However, would I toss out a diesel and put in an A-4? No way. But for the 150 hours I have put on the engine in the last 5 years, it sure makes sense (i.e $$$$$ sense). If I was going to do some long ocean passges or start sailing around the world, I'd buy another boat (i.e. bigger and better blue water oriented) and not waste money on installing a diesel on my current boat.
If my A-4 were to crap out, Don Moyer offers totally rebuilt A-4's for a reasonable sum (depending on the level of repair). It's about 50% to 60% cheaper to go this route than plunk in a diesel.
Think about a new shaft, new prop, new fuel lines, new engine mounts, new controls, new gauges, modifying the fuel tank (return line), new fuel filters, etc. etc. etc. The incidental costs add up REAL quick when swapping out a dis-similar engine.
So, I'm sure the debate will continue until there is no petroleum left, but having worked on diesel's of all sizes (50 to 3,300 hp), I can say, with out a doubt, the A-4 has been the simplest engine I have ever worked on!
To look at an A-4 the way it *could* look, have a look at my "Engine of the month" at Moyer Marine:
http://www.moyermarine.com/july_2005.htm
Or here ya go:
The debate continious.....
However, if one stops to think about it, any engine will be unreliable and bronken down if not properly maintained, looked after or is abused. If one did not maintain or look after their A-4, a diesel will only be more expensive to repair if similarly uncared for - just give it time.
Since this is a throw-away society (i.e. USA), tossing out a gas engine for a diesel and spending close to $10,000 bucks to do it (yes, realistically when it's all said and done - see below), seems to be a viable option for many boaters. To each there own.
Personally, I have had no problems with my E-35 MKII's 1972 A-4. Granted, I resurected it from the previous owner's negelct, but in return, it has offered 5 years of trouble free service. However, would I toss out a diesel and put in an A-4? No way. But for the 150 hours I have put on the engine in the last 5 years, it sure makes sense (i.e $$$$$ sense). If I was going to do some long ocean passges or start sailing around the world, I'd buy another boat (i.e. bigger and better blue water oriented) and not waste money on installing a diesel on my current boat.
If my A-4 were to crap out, Don Moyer offers totally rebuilt A-4's for a reasonable sum (depending on the level of repair). It's about 50% to 60% cheaper to go this route than plunk in a diesel.
Think about a new shaft, new prop, new fuel lines, new engine mounts, new controls, new gauges, modifying the fuel tank (return line), new fuel filters, etc. etc. etc. The incidental costs add up REAL quick when swapping out a dis-similar engine.
So, I'm sure the debate will continue until there is no petroleum left, but having worked on diesel's of all sizes (50 to 3,300 hp), I can say, with out a doubt, the A-4 has been the simplest engine I have ever worked on!
To look at an A-4 the way it *could* look, have a look at my "Engine of the month" at Moyer Marine:
http://www.moyermarine.com/july_2005.htm
Or here ya go:
Attachments
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july_05_A-4%20top Large Web view.jpg -
july_05_A-4%20front Large Web view.jpg
jmoses said:
Hi John,
You really hit a chord here, and I think you are dead on. I grumble about the lack of power for my application of the 2QM15 (2 cyl, 15 hp) for Emerald (about 12K). Yet the A4 in the garage is really getting rebuilt to sell to fund buying the offed diesel from someone who doesn't want to rebuild "that 70's vintage old engine" for a thousand, but instead must drop in a "new" engine because somehow it is better than a proper rebuild. Raise a pint to consumers of new products.
Despite her lack of power for my application, I like the little Yanmar in Emerald. It just becomes frustrating to have powered along easily almost a knot faster in my E-27 in any condition than I can now in the best of conditions. I always figured as my boat got bigger, things like motoring would become less painful. I am going to do some final sea trials before haul out next week to verify I have the correct prop.
BTW, yes, I know it's a sail boat, and some would say don't worry about it, but it is hard not to end up motoring near 40-45 minutes on either end of my sail due to the river I am on. It would be nice to make that 25-30 minutes each way to increase the sail time
Also, the prior owner has warned of not having enough power to make some narrows around here, which would be nice to be able to use without having to be at the complete mercy of the tides (Kent and Knapp's Narrows for those on the Chesapeake).Would love to get the noise levels down. I need to look at insulating all sides of my engine compartment. It would probably be good to have an easy to remove aft barrier as well that seperates the area under the cockpit from being part of the "engine room".
As we go insulating our diesel engine compartments, remember that many diesels call for running their ventilation blowers (yeah, like the ones you run for 5 minutes on the A4 powered boats
) continuously while the engine is operating, as the diesel recieves (by design) a significant cooling affect from ambient air.-David
Independence 31
Emerald
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It's "logical" either way...
Devil's Advocate checking in.
If, pause for effect..., an owner would consider rebuilding a tired A4 gas to replace his existing too-small diesel (or a dying diesel, for that matter), he could also just as logically rebuild a larger diesel that someone else is replacing because they want a bigger engine...
Your friendly D.A. only suggests this because he notes that (almost) every time anyone puts in a new diesel, it's larger than the old one. What with the market saturated with sailboats from the glory days of the 70's and 80's, that's a lotta diesels going into the secondary market.
That older two or three cylinder Yanmar or Universal that's getting put out to pasture from a larger boat might be just what you need to Perk(ins) up your E-31...
Thanks for listening. Gotta run. Engines to see; Souls to acquire....
Devil's Advocate checking in.
If, pause for effect..., an owner would consider rebuilding a tired A4 gas to replace his existing too-small diesel (or a dying diesel, for that matter), he could also just as logically rebuild a larger diesel that someone else is replacing because they want a bigger engine...
Your friendly D.A. only suggests this because he notes that (almost) every time anyone puts in a new diesel, it's larger than the old one. What with the market saturated with sailboats from the glory days of the 70's and 80's, that's a lotta diesels going into the secondary market.
That older two or three cylinder Yanmar or Universal that's getting put out to pasture from a larger boat might be just what you need to Perk(ins) up your E-31...
Thanks for listening. Gotta run. Engines to see; Souls to acquire....
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