Bulkhead rot found on my E27

[Scott Abbott]

I am in the process of replacing my atomic 4 with a rebuilt (or better engine to me option). I have discovered that the plywood separation bulkhead between the salon and the head is rotten at the bottom (prior water infiltration while on the hard). My main support under the mast appears to be fine. Is this a structural concern. Need to figure out what kind of trouble I am in before moving forward with engine replacement. It seems to be rotten/delaminated for 1" or so from contact with hull. Pulling this thing out and replacing it doesn't seem possible in one piece. It looks like it was placed in before the deck was installed and fiberglass bonded. What do I do here?

 

[dt222]

Scott,

I am in the process of replacing that same bulkhead only mine was delaminating from the hull side, upper right corner, not the bottom (There are some previous posts with pictures). I originally thought that the replacement could be made in one piece but no longer feel that way only because of the inability to bend the plywood enough to clear the inserts (top. bottom and hull side) where it is through bolted, so I intend to lap joint it (horizontally).

Although not the primary support (that's the compression post), I do believe the bulkhead does provide seconday support to the deck and hull where they meet. I'm waiting for warmer weather to start with the reconstruction.

Don

 

[tenders]

Pix, Scott?

I think that's 3/4" plywood. I'd suggest cutting three inches out, beveling the edge of the cutout, and glassing/epoxying in a 1/2" slab of G10 sized to fit the cutout, also beveled, to allow increasingly wide layers of fiberglass tape to build up.

Access to both sides or the edges of the repair may be a complicating factor.

 

[Scott Abbott]

Best picture that I have at the moment. The bulkhead separating the head from the salon is rotten at the bottom... uggh.

 

[tenders]

That looks to me like a stain from standing water. How is the forward bulkhead looking athwart the v-berth - also problematic? Are you certain it's rotting, and not just discolored?

Assuming it is rot, I reiterate my repair suggestion. You'll need a cheap Harbor Freight oscillating saw ($50), a grinder ($50), $50 of G10, and the usual epoxy/fiberglass kit. You could probably cut the G10 with the right disc in the grinder but I'd use a table saw, borrowed if necessary.

 

[Scott Abbott]

That looks to me like a stain from standing water. How is the forward bulkhead looking athwart the v-berth - also problematic? Are you certain it's rotting, and not just discolored?

Assuming it is rot, I reiterate my repair suggestion. You'll need a cheap Harbor Freight oscillating saw ($50), a grinder ($50), $50 of G10, and the usual epoxy/fiberglass kit. You could probably cut the G10 with the right disc in the grinder but I'd use a table saw, borrowed if necessary.

I have no idea what G10 is. I assume it is fiberglass board? That would require me to paint the bulkhead after I make the repair? The forward berth bulkhead is stained but doesn't show rot. The aft bulkhead certainly does at the bottom where it is sandwiched between the two fiberglass rims with bolts.

 

[Scott Abbott]

Scott,

I am in the process of replacing that same bulkhead only mine was delaminating from the hull side, upper right corner, not the bottom (There are some previous posts with pictures). I originally thought that the replacement could be made in one piece but no longer feel that way only because of the inability to bend the plywood enough to clear the inserts (top. bottom and hull side) where it is through bolted, so I intend to lap joint it (horizontally).

Although not the primary support (that's the compression post), I do believe the bulkhead does provide seconday support to the deck and hull where they meet. I'm waiting for warmer weather to start with the reconstruction.

Don

Bummer here. As you address it, please post some photos so that I might see how you are doing the repair. My engine replacement is now on hold until I can get a handle on my boat and its true condition. Seems like a poor design to me to construct the bulkhead so that A. it rots ... and B. it can't be replaced in one piece without taking a chain saw and cutting the entire deck free from the hull. A well built boat? Where does the 'well built' start to appear? Haven't seen much of that on mine.

 

[tenders]

G10 is very strong structural replacement material - industrially-prepared layers of fiberglass and epoxy. Great for backing plates, too - paintable, uncorroding, and workable with wood tools, unlike aluminum and stainless steel.

http://bit.ly/1a7eyEg

http://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=34235

http://blog.boattrader.com/2010/12/g-10-the-secret-wonder-material-of-diy-boat-repairers.html

http://mcmaster.com (an amazing website/app for all kinds of parts and materials)

You can often find useful bits on eBay from industrial shops - I've gotten several 1/2" slabs from a guy in Norfolk, VA.

Here's my similar repair - yours is probably easier from a structural standpoint as you don't have chainplates to contend with, but perhaps more difficult from an access standpoint as I didn't have to remove or work around any cabinetry. (There are some additional chainplate-area repairs earlier in the thread.)

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...-and-Bulkhead-replace/page3&p=52891#post52891

You don't have to paint the bulkhead - you can tint the last coat of epoxy a brownish color (the microballoon additives in my repair were pretty close to brown) or apply a veneer and stain it to match, if you're so inclined. So far I haven't gotten that far down my list of priorities.

Your boat is coming up on 37 years old. While it was probably not intended to last that long, it is certainly capable of lasting another 30 years...but its condition today is largely a function of the sum of the maintenance done over its lifetime. I don't think you'll find mid-70s-era Cals, Catalinas, or Pearsons that have been similarly maintained to have fewer issues with bulkheads, deck cores, chainplates, rudders, gelcoat, or wiring. In fact you'll find many boats of that era from those manufacturers in the boneyard.

 

[G Kiba]

Scott,

I don't have this problem and hope never to. I have seen water damage to other E27 interiors and IMHO... if the compression post is not damaged, I might try treating the rotted area and covering the damege for asthetics and possibly reinforcement. If that doesn't work, you can always invest in a major renovation. Perfection (for older boats like ours) is overrated. I put money into making the boat sail better, making it eaiser to sail, or making it safer. Anything that makes it look better is second to the latter.

This treatment has been around boats for along time.
http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/cpes.html

Best of luck, Remember, with boats it's always something.

 

[Bill Kitchens]

E27 Bulkhead

I replaced mine, It has a thin marine plywood which is bolted on at the top. The marine plywood is covered with a teak nor mahogany paper vaneer. When I remove mine dry rot and water damage. The bulkhead came apart in pieces. I first replaced it with thin stained plywood. Then I added a dark mahogany wood. I will post pictures of my boat when I figure that out. lol

 

[Scott Abbott]

I replaced mine, It has a thin marine plywood which is bolted on at the top. The marine plywood is covered with a teak nor mahogany paper vaneer. When I remove mine dry rot and water damage. The bulkhead came apart in pieces. I first replaced it with thin stained plywood. Then I added a dark mahogany wood. I will post pictures of my boat when I figure that out. lol

Thanks Bill (and to Tenders & Kiba) I am getting pretty discouraged and your plan looks like a good solution. This boat has given me a black eye. Only now do I fully appreciate that I could have purchased a boat for three times as much and been glad to do it. It is either keep pushing forward or give up on my dream... but there are limits to what makes sense for the boat and me personally. If I can just get past this hump, I might be able to afford pushing forward. I will have to get this addressed before performing an engine replacement. Bill's detail of how the plywood is constructed is helpful. I may come up with a plan to install G-10 in the trench bonded to plywood above in some manner. Have to figure it out. Your ideas and experience is one of the few real strengths here. I have given up on good advice from my sources locally.

 

[celtic sea]

Scott, I also have similar issues at the forward bulkhead and engine hatch board. My Ericson is a 1973 with original A4. As stated in one of the posts, I haven't addressed theses problem and currently not even on the radar. Ericsons are well built boats and are for sailing. If it was me (just my opinion) I would put it on the back burner, work with your motor, sails, through hull valves, pumps, safety items,etc. And get out sailing!!!
John
Celtic Sea
E27 1973

 

[Scott Abbott]

Scott, I also have similar issues at the forward bulkhead and engine hatch board. My Ericson is a 1973 with original A4. As stated in one of the posts, I haven't addressed theses problem and currently not even on the radar. Ericsons are well built boats and are for sailing. If it was me (just my opinion) I would put it on the back burner, work with your motor, sails, through hull valves, pumps, safety items,etc. And get out sailing!!!
John
Celtic Sea
E27 1973[/QUOTE

Appreciate that John... but I have guys telling me they are structural too. Thoughts?

 

[celtic sea]

I believe yes they are structural, but I don't believe that small amount of "rot" will effect the structural integrity of the boat, that is in less your going to cross the Atlantic ocean. I can't really say not seeing how bad it is, but from your pic, go sailing. How many years has the boat been sailing so far? 37? How many years are you going to sail her? I'm not saying not to repair it, but get sailing, take care of through hulls, motor, bilge pump and put it on your list TO DO.
(again just my opinion)
John
Celtic Sea

 

[Scott Abbott]

I believe yes they are structural, but I don't believe that small amount of "rot" will effect the structural integrity of the boat, that is in less your going to cross the Atlantic ocean. I can't really say not seeing how bad it is, but from your pic, go sailing. How many years has the boat been sailing so far? 37? How many years are you going to sail her? I'm not saying not to repair it, but get sailing, take care of through hulls, motor, bilge pump and put it on your list TO DO.
(again just my opinion)
John
Celtic Sea

Thanks... it is cool that you have the same boat and you are telling me that. I will evaluate... thanks again

 

[Alan Gomes]

Are you sure it's rotten?

Are you absolutely certain it is rotten? Don't just go by the discoloration. The bottom of the bulkhead on my E26-2 looks worse than yours but it is only the surface-level veneer that is involved and the bulkhead is *not* rotten. I know, because I was just at the boat with a friend and we replaced (as part of preventive maintenance) the 4 lag screws that hold the bulkhead in place and also took the occasion to determine whether or not the discoloration was just surface level or something more serious. (I've got the mast down at the moment and so am going through all of the structural attachment points as part of this particular refit.) We poked it with an ice pick and the wood was good. Plus, when we installed the new lag screws it was clear that they were all biting into good wood, and tightening them down did not crush the wood. (Not that there is a need to excessively tighten it, since the lag screws are taking a shear load. But we did snug them pretty well and the wood was just fine.)

Obviously at some point there was moisture that caused the discoloration and I have no idea where that may have come from, since it was certainly from before I owned the boat. There is no moisture there now so I have no idea.

I'm not saying you don't have rot, but I'm just suggesting that you not assume there is and that you should give it a careful inspection before you start tearing out stuff.

 

[celtic sea]

With that said, I believe when I checked mine (on forward bulkhead) it was just the
Top surface and the rest seemed ok. Once wet, that veneer layer peels right off.

John
Celtic Sea
Ericson 27 1973

 

[tenders]

By contrast, when my bulkhead rotted it smelled very musty and I stuck my finger all the way through it. I think there's a picture of the finger-hole on that thread I posted.

Also look at the current thread about the 1970 Ericson 32 - additional info on how the joint of this repair can be made.