Broken Lewmar Hinge Rivets

[Loren Beach]

I have to repair the center hinge on our size 70 "ocean" Lewmar. This is the forward hatch that I replaced right after we bought our boat, 1n 1995. No problems until about a month ago until both large rivets that hold the hinge base to the frame/flange let go. After 20 years, it's a wee bit late to complain about Lewmar's QC.


I called Lewmar today and Josh, in their technical dept, tells me that I would need to remove that hatch to get at the hinge base and insert two new 5/16" rivets. That's one honkin' large rivet, unless I am mis-remembering the size.

As an alternative (and I get the feeling that this was not the first or only time this question has come up....) he suggested driving an ss screw thru the frame holes, with a washer to hold the hinge base in place, into the structure beyond.
I our case this should work. Back of the hatch flange spigot is an inch of oak, bedded in epoxy.

I am posting up this little problem mostly out of curiosity, in case anyone else has had this problem. Note that the older "roll stop" Lewmar hatch hinges are not related to this problem.

Loren

ps: misspelled "rivet" in the first photo. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[Tom Metzger]

Loren - Just the center hinge has a problem? That's strange. The center hinge should have the least force on it of the three unless it was mis-aligned from the git-go. A very real possibility.

On the Size 60 which is what we have on the E-34 there are only two hinges and I haven't had a problem in eight years. As I remember, I got the idea of barrel nuts from you. They should hold everything in place.

I would do what Josh says and screw the hinge/frame to the deck cut out. Also, check the tightness of the through bolts holding the frame in place.

 

[Loren Beach]

a riveting experience

Some closure to this problem.
I measured the holes and determined that they can be tapped for a 12-24 short screw, or with some ingenuity a pair of new 3/16 rivets can be pulled.

The head of my old Craftsman puller would not fit into the little cast recess so I thought about it and tried a method to "extend" the head of the puller.
I figured that as long as the grabber in the nose of the rivet puller can get a grip on any part of the pop rivet shaft it ought to work. So I pushed the new rivet in all the way and then slid two brass nuts (about a #8) all the way down to the shoulder. The gun engaged and three squeezes later it popped. same for the second one, using the same technique to "extend" the reach of the nose of the riveter.

If these break or pull out, it's on to plan B with tapping it for a short #12 screw.

It seems odd, from a philosophical standpoint, to be repairing stuff that I installed new 20 years ago.
Same feeling when I replaced the fridge compressor and evaporator a couple weeks ago.

Loren

 

[Shelman]

Some closure to this problem.
I measured the holes and determined that they can be tapped for a 12-24 short screw, or with some ingenuity a pair of new 3/16 rivets can be pulled.

The head of my old Craftsman puller would not fit into the little cast recess so I thought about it and tried a method to "extend" the head of the puller.
I figured that as long as the grabber in the nose of the rivet puller can get a grip on any part of the pop rivet shaft it ought to work. So I pushed the new rivet in all the way and then slid two brass nuts (about a #8) all the way down to the shoulder. The gun engaged and three squeezes later it popped. same for the second one, using the same technique to "extend" the reach of the nose of the riveter.

If these break or pull out, it's on to plan B with tapping it for a short #12 screw.

It seems odd, from a philosophical standpoint, to be repairing stuff that I installed new 20 years ago.
Same feeling when I replaced the fridge compressor and evaporator a couple weeks ago.

Loren

Loren, Every rivet on every Lewmar hatch on my boat has had every single rivet break at some point. Id say that can be called a pattern.
I used the same rivet extension method that you discovered last month to re-rivet the latch catches on my Lewmar ocean series hatches. I also applied 3M 4200 to the backsides of the pieces to give them a little extra bit of holding power.

 

[Loren Beach]

Loren, Every rivet on every Lewmar hatch on my boat has had every single rivet break at some point. Id say that can be called a pattern.
I used the same rivet extension method that you discovered last month to re-rivet the latch catches on my Lewmar ocean series hatches. I also applied 3M 4200 to the backsides of the pieces to give them a little extra bit of holding power.

From some research on the 'net it appears that Lewmar used metric (5 mm) rivets, but that same research showed that others used the 3/16" size to replace the originals because the size is so close.
Seems to work, but of course 'only time will tell' as the old tired saying goes.

One 'net narrative claimed to have used both ss and alum. rivets depending on what he had on hand.
(I have pulled these larger ss rivets in the past for some boom hard ware, but it was a very difficult double-handed job with that size rivet!)

Now I wonder if repeated stress from keeping those hinges tight to cope with our heavy size 70 hatch might also put a bit too much stress on the attachments?
Oh well, maybe next time I will try the ss rivet repair.

Regards,
Loren

 

[bsangs]

Reviving a VERY old thread, I realize, but am having a pop rivet issue, and honestly have never worked with pop rivets before, so am seeking out some advice. One of the catch blocks on my v-berth Lewmar Super Hatch 60 has broken free of the frame. The rivets broke in half. So I have some rivet in the catch block, and some rivet in the frame. Don't own a pop rivet gun or removal tool. Don't want to damage the frame or make the holes any larger. Can I simply use some sort of punch tool from outside the frame to punch the broken pieces out? And would I be better off using SS screws when reinstalling the catch block (assuming I successfully remove the broken rivets), or should I seek out replacement pop rivets, in which case I obviously need to find a pop rivet gun?

 

[Christian Williams]

The "catch" piece on the deck opening that receives the hatch dog?

They break because they take all the force of the tightened dogs. On the 32-3 I think I used a rivet gun and aluminum rivets, but last month on the E38 I used small wood screws.

Pop rivets are easy to use--if there's room to maneuver the gun. The rivets come in different lengths and thicknesses. But try screws, they hold fine in the aluminum edge treatment of my model.

(Just drill out the remnants of the old rivets)

 

[Loren Beach]

Old thread, but still relevant. This year I note that while my home brew re-rivet job on the center hinge is holding, it will seep water and drip when pressure washing the deck around that area. As long as it holds I will ignore it, having no wish for a "do over" now. I still do not have a 'better idea' for pulling a replacement rivets, if it comes to that, but with 20-20 hindsight wish I had thought of doing so when the whole hatch frame was off the boat for months, in 2021. (sigh)

Limited solace is found in the knowledge that several friends with new boats have spent up to two (!) years chasing down multitudes of problems due to manufacturing defects. As others have pointed out, "production" boats are really all just semi-custom builds.
By comparison, consider that out of every hundred thousand cars built, a constant % will have vexing "warranty problems" resulting from design or QC problems. (We own one, and it's best to only discuss it privately...)

So, yup, a pop rivet gun was/is my tool of choice. It's the access to the recess in the mount casting that is so challenging.
Note that this was about the hinge attachment; the rivets that hole the tightening dogs are a separate issue. No problem there for us, but we remain paranoid.

 

[bsangs]

I actually purchased four replacement catch block kits from Hatchmasters last year, with an eye on replacing all four in the future. Glad I did, as they are no longer available. The kit comes with replacement pop rivets, but I might follow Christian's lead and try small wood screws instead. Thanks guys.

 

[Christian Williams]

Moderator note: It's much appreciated when members revive old threads and there ought to be a prize for all who do it. Keeps the information together, proves a search was made first, and so on. Just for the record.

 

[bsangs]

Moderator note: It's much appreciated when members revive old threads and there ought to be a prize for all who do it. Keeps the information together, proves a search was made first, and so on. Just for the record.

I like beer and bourbon, if you're handing out prizes. No IPA's though. Thank you.

 

[Alan Gomes]

No IPA's though.

My son thinks IPAs are great. To me, they are like drinking a Christmas tree. Not that there's any thread drift in this observation or anything.

 

[bgary]

Scotch, for me. Preferably one old enough to vote