Broad reach sail trim

[csoule13]

Discovery, our Ericson 30+, was out this weekend with winds generally either dead on the beam, or a broad reach(at times reasonably deep). Our sail inventory is a 155% genoa up front, set up on the inner track, and the usual mainsail. No chute and no pole, and no intention to acquire either in the near future. The captain and I have a, shall we say, healthy respect for accidental jibes. Winds were likely in the upper single digits.

Reviewing the weekend, it occurs to me that we likely gave up both some speed and directness of course due to not being overly familiar with how to trim up for these conditions. We likely could have let the main out to the spreaders, but what about the big genoa? We don't have the winches available to run a 2nd set of sheets to use the outer track.

The sailing ended up plenty safe, and we managed to mostly zig zag our way up, but just had that nagging feeling that we were making it harder on ourselves that necessary.

 

[bkuchinic]

Discovery, our Ericson 30+, was out this weekend with winds generally either dead on the beam, or a broad reach(at times reasonably deep). Our sail inventory is a 155% genoa up front, set up on the inner track, and the usual mainsail. No chute and no pole, and no intention to acquire either in the near future. The captain and I have a, shall we say, healthy respect for accidental jibes. Winds were likely in the upper single digits.

Reviewing the weekend, it occurs to me that we likely gave up both some speed and directness of course due to not being overly familiar with how to trim up for these conditions. We likely could have let the main out to the spreaders, but what about the big genoa? We don't have the winches available to run a 2nd set of sheets to use the outer track.

The sailing ended up plenty safe, and we managed to mostly zig zag our way up, but just had that nagging feeling that we were making it harder on ourselves that necessary.

Thank you for that question to the group. I had exactly the same experience this weekend, with the same set up (sails, lack of chute / pole) on my new-to-me E34, but for an extra set of winches that can handle a second set of sheets. I look forward to reading the responses.

Brad

 

[GrandpaSteve]

I never thought I needed extra winches to run the sheets on the outer track . I just move the sheet and car to the outer track when it is the lazy sheet, that way when I tack the working sheet is now on the outer track. Am I missing something?

 

[bgary]

In general, on a beam reach or broad reach you want to
-- move the jib lead forward and outboard
-- allow the top of the jib to open up (you want a nice curved leach) and then
-- adjust the twist in the main to match that of the jib.

That last is especially true with a fractional rig like the 30+; if the jib is in too tight or the main is out too far, it will choke off the "slot" between the two and the boat will slow down. You want both sails to be "twisted off" with open leaches.

Sort of like this.... the leaches of both sails are nice and round and soft, and the slot between the sails is open to allow lots of airflow to bend through there.



$.02
Bruce

 

[Frank Langer]

We have owned our E30+ for over 11 years and love how she sails! We have an older mainsail (2001) and a 125% older headsail (2005) and a rarely used spinnaker (I do a lot of singlehanded sailing, and my wife doesn't know how to manage the spinnaker when she does come along).

In the single digit winds you mention (I'm assuming 6 - 9 knots for sake of the discussion) on a beam reach, I would have the mainsail out almost touching the spreaders and the headsail also out quite far, with both inside and outside telltales flying, and would expect speed of about 5 knots; with an increase in wind to about 15 knots, speed would increase to about 6.5 to 7.2 knots, depending on calm seas vs. choppy waves that slow me down a bit. On a broad reach, mainsail would be out touching the spreader, but without too much pressure on the batten so as not to break it, and headsail will be further out than on a beam reach, and telltales may no longer be flying as regularly, but sail will still be full.

I almost always sail with the sheets in the OUTSIDE track, rather than the inside. I find that I gain at least a half knot, maybe more, over having sheets on the inner track. I don't know why that is, but it is consistently faster on the outside track. The only time I use the inner track for the headsail sheets is when I need to point high to reach a certain destination or when sailing almost directly into the wind--I can point higher using the inside track.

I find the E30+ to be a very responsive boat, picking up quite readily in light winds, yet handling stronger winds up to about 30 knots or more well with one or two reefs in the mainsail and headsail furled a bit. When my sails were newer, I regularly reached 7 - 8 knots, now with older sails I have lost about a half knot, still not bad for a boat with rated hull speed of about 6.7 knots.

I will be interested to see what others post about their experience.

Frank

 

[csoule13]

I never thought I needed extra winches to run the sheets on the outer track . I just move the sheet and car to the outer track when it is the lazy sheet, that way when I tack the working sheet is now on the outer track. Am I missing something?

I was watching a video on the topic, and they had rigged a fancy set up so you could trim w/ either the sheet set up for the inside or outside track. Of course, this is would be the simpler approach, or any number of variations on it. I'd almost be partial to just have a 2nd set of leads already on the outboard track, and re-running the lazy sheet. Less chance of dropping hardware overboard, which is a skill I have perfected.

Bruce, the pic explains things clearly. Am I correct in that by having the main out to the shrouds, it acts as extra protection against the wind accidentally getting behind the sail?

 

[GrandpaSteve]

I was watching a video on the topic, and they had rigged a fancy set up so you could trim w/ either the sheet set up for the inside or outside track. Of course, this is would be the simpler approach, or any number of variations on it. I'd almost be partial to just have a 2nd set of leads already on the outboard track, and re-running the lazy sheet. Less chance of dropping hardware overboard, which is a skill I have perfected....

The extra hardware is probably a good idea if you think you are going to change tracks more than occasionally.

 

[Christian Williams]

I keep blocks on both inner and outer tracks. If I need to use the rail track, I just re-lead the sheet. If it's blowing 30, I furl the genoa first to make it easy.

Block lead position depends on the cut of the foresail, but off the wind it isn't all that important. Adjust the block position so foot and leech of the genoa appear more or less same.

On a beam reach or a broad reach, let the sails out until they luff a little and then trim a little to stop the luff.

The most common issue is over-trimming. "When in doubt, let it out."

 

[bolbmw]

I echo what Frank and Christian have said but I always keep my sheets on the inner track. If I know I am going to be sailing on a deeper point of sail for a longer time, I'll just run another sheet and transfer the load to the secondary winches while underway, which is handy.

The spinnaker only comes out when I have experienced crew on board.

 

[Darrel]

When I first started to sail....20 years ago I was given some advice on sail trim. " when in doubt let it out". Once it starts to luff trim it in till it no longer luffs." I found this to be very sound advice as I was always sheeted in too far.

I fly a 155 head sail on the outer tracks only if I'm pinching tight do I move the sheets inward. But now we start wondering about what is a good location for the cars on the track. I've always slide the cars farther aft to flatten the sails in higher wind but I have learned this through trial and error. Lots of errors . Can't wait to hear others chime in on sail trim. I also try to avoid sailing dead down wind as accidental jibes scare me.

Take in mind I am a land lock d sailor in Texas and wind shifts occurred often on Lake Texoma.

 

[Christian Williams]

Ericsons have inboard chainplates primarily to permit closer foresail sheeting angles. It's more expensive and that's what the inner track is for. It's a bragging right.

Everybody used to want to go fast to windward and point high. Not so much anymore, so today's boats are aimed at off-wind sailors. Why? I have a hunch it is reliable engines, shortage of time, new kinds of sails, and clever new hulls that do both pretty well.

 

[Darrel]

Ericsons have inboard chainplates primarily to permit closer foresail sheeting angles. It's more expensive and that's what the inner track is for. It's a bragging right.

Everybody used to want to go fast to windward and point high. Not so much anymore, so today's boats are aimed at off-wind sailors. Why? I have a hunch it is reliable engines, shortage of time, new kinds of sails, and clever new hulls that do both pretty well.

Personally, I love to go fast to the windward and pinch in tight, as tight as 30 degrees apparent. And the looks I get from other boats by pinch so tight and flying up wind... yes Christian is correct it's bragging rights and oh so fun to do it and whatch the other boats have to fall off the wind to keep pace? I never get sick of friends saying " WOW that Erickson is a fast boat"