Bottom Cleaning

[SFWindChaser]

Hi all,

I would like to get some feedback from experienced boat owners about the questionable results of a bottom cleaning service I recently had performed. There was a verbal agreement beforehand to have the hull of my Ericson 29 cleaned for an estimate of $60. I later received a bill for $110 wich included the $60 cleaning plus $50 for installing 2 3/4" zinc collars. I personally installed all new zincs on my boat 6 months prior to the cleaning, including 2 collars on the prop shaft. I question whether they needed replacement after 6 months (boat is kept in SF Marina). Also, I never gave the dive service authorization to replace the zincs. Finally, I noticed 3 weeks after the cleaning that there was about 2-3 inches of stringy marine growth on the rudder - is this possible if the rudder was cleaned?? I wonder if it was? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance...

 

[Emerald]

A little more information will help. Have you had this boat at this marina before e.g. spent a season there and hauled so you have a reference on your zincs? I was going through two zincs every 6 months until I put on a galvanic isolator. I am working with our dockmaster to track down what we believe is stray voltage in our marina. I'm not the only one to have this experience. So, it is possible that you did use up the zincs. However, $50 to replace zincs on a prop shaft is ridiculous. I've had several different divers do it for the cost of the zincs, about $7 bucks, with no additional charge as they were already doing the whole bottom. I will say our typical per foot rate is higher at about $3/foot. Maybe this guy likes to quote low footage rates and nail you on the zincs to get to the same price point. Ask around the docks and see what other people are paying and experiencing with their zincs.

Finally, I've seen terrible bottom growth come back, especially with warm water and sunlight exposure. Check out the other boats around you and see what is going on, but I'd expect you'd make it a month or so before it got too bad again.

 

[Sven]

Did he leave the removed Zincs on your dockbox ?

I believe it is common practice to leave the old ones where you will find them. Just as car service centers will show you the defective part they removed (required by law in some places ?).


-Sven

 

[Emerald]

I should clarify that when I say I've had bottom growth come back in a month, it's been fuzz that I could brush off with a push broom standing on the pier. I don't know what your plant critters are like compared to what we have on the Chesapeake, but I can't imagine something 2-3 inches long in a 3 weeks around here.

 

[SFWindChaser]

Thank you for the replies,

To answer your questions, I have only owned the boat for about a year, and hauled it for the 1st time 6 months ago, when I put the zincs on (none were on when I hauled it). Also, no old zincs were left behind after the job. It seems to me like whether or not the zincs were in need of replacement, the diver should not have done so and billed me $50 for it without authorization from me. Do you think I should refuse to pay this amount? Is it a general understanding that zincs will be replaced if necessary in a bottom cleaning?

Evan

 

[Frank Langer]

This is a bit of a tough call. However, in my experience a diver will replace zincs if he notices they are substantially spent, because who wouldn't want to have their zincs functional. Yes, ideally he would have phoned you first. But if he was in his wet suit I don't think it's unreasonable for him to have grabbed a couple of zincs and installed them for you. I have a very good and responsible diver, but I can only recall once where he left the old zincs, and that was when I told him I wasn't sure they would need replacement yet, so he left the old ones so I could see how much was left of them, as a reference for next time. I usually replace mine about once every 6 months, as they are substantially used up by then.

I have personally cleaned the bottom of my hull, and had algae evident again two weeks later, so as long as it isn't long strands, I think algae showing up again after a month may not be unusual.

It also depends on whether you plan to use this diver again--not paying him for the zincs may put you not only in his "bad books", but if the divers/maintenance folk talk among themselves, you may find it hard to find someone next time you want some work done.

I agree with an earlier post where it was suggested that you compare your experience with that of others in your marina, and maybe get a recommendation of a diver that has a good reputation and has been in business in the area for awhile.

Good luck!
Frank

 

[Mark F]

My diver keeps an eye on the zinc and replaces it when needed while he is at the boat cleaning the bottom. I know there are areas in the SF Bay that algae grows at an alarming rate. I think I would pay the diver. Have you heard any other complaints about him/her?

 

[ChrisS]

I'm over in Sausalito, and I pay $2 a foot for a bottom scrub. That's slightly on the high side, I think, even for Sausalito, but they do a good job, and any time I have had questions about the condition on the bottom paint, cutlass bearing, etc, the diver has given me extensive and accurate information. Becuase of the good service, he has a lock on the business in the area. So I think part of the game is, like any other service, finding an operation that you feel good about partonizing. If you don't like this service, ask around the dock and find someone who has a good reputation. Before refusing to pay I'd talk to the owner and see what happened in your case. If you don't like how he does business, tell him why you are not satisfied, pay up, and find a better service. If this guy wants to keep you as a customer, he may make a concession.

Is the owner of the sevice the person who does the work? If not, the employee probably swaps out zincs when they are worn, which is standard practice for most bottom services. I think six months on zincs is pretty standard too, although the price is high. My guy charges me $10/zinc plus the cost of the zincs, and he always leaves me the old ones.

A friend of mine with a 30+ is a diver and has all the gear. He does all his own work, and I have been thinking about getting certified to be able to follow his lead. It makes sense.

On another note, we're sailing over to South Beach Marina this Friday and Saturday nights to enjoy the City. Great weather right now, and SF is a lot of fun with the lights and such.

 

[Dave Hussey]

see the bottom

I built a tool from something I saw on the web that every boat owner or yacht club should have at their disposal...it is a tube of 4 inch ABS plumbing with a clear plexiglass disk/lens at one end, permitting a clear view of the hull, prop, shaft, zincs, everything underwater. Comprised of only three parts: the ABS plastic tube aproximately 6 feet long, a coupler, and a disk of plexiglass which fits between the tube and the coupler...glued together with 3m 4200, or silicone, or whatever is left over from the last project. With this tube, I was able to determine the condition of my zincs and bottom growth. This is a really neat tool. Simple, yet functional. Dont let water, or rain, get in the open end though, it mucks up the clarity. ISomeday I'll put a cover on the viewing end.
$110 to clean the bottom and replace the zincs seems reasonable to me, if it needed it. Consider how much a haul out would cost.

 

[SFWindChaser]

Thanks again for the replies everyone. I'm a fairly new big boat owner and still learning the ins and outs. I'll just go ahead and pay and if I use the same diver next time I'll request the old zincs.

Evan

 

[selous]

Being a boat owner and diver who has cleaned many a bottom,I would say that your zincs could easily be spent in 6 months especially if you have bronze through hulls which are not bonded ie.. tied electrically to all metal appengages below the waterline. Stray currents in the water from other boats nearby will also chew up your Zincs real fast. Soft stringy growth will also easily form in a few weeks.I think you made a wise choice to pay the diver.As you said just ask him to leave the old zincs next time. To the person in Sausalito who said 2 bucks a foot is a bit steep for diving the bottom! Try doing it yourself 8 hours a day in 38 -42 degree water and see how much you would like to get for your labor!
$2 a foot is an absolute bargain! I used to have a $100 minimum for small boats and people who know paid it with a smile on their faces.

 

[Bill Upchurch]

I have my 35II bottom cleaned every four weeks, which is pretty standard where I keep my boat, at a cost of $36.75. On each invoice he notes the condition of the bottom paint and the zinc. When the zinc needs replacing, he does it without asking which is fine with me. The charge for the zink replacing is $21.24.

 

[selous]

Sounds like you get a great deal Bill,at a buck a foot! Wow. Competition must be insane in the LA area.

 

[Glyn Judson]

Bottom cleaning costs, SoCal.

Lloyd and all, I don't have my checkbook in front of me but I pay something on the order of $30 a month for bottom cleaning on our E31. I think the vastly divergent amounts we are all paying might well be a reflection of where we're located. As some of you might know, we keep our boat in Marina del Rey, CA where there are over 6,000 slips. Also the SoCal sunshine causes stuff to grow faster, especially in the summer months requiring monthly bottom service. I just have to think that mere competition amongst the several dive services here coupled with the volume of work they all have, contribute to the seemingly affordable rate I pay. I remember paying something like $100 to a diver almost 15 years ago to have him clean the bottom of our boat when I was considering her purchase down in Beaufort, SC. Mind you, this was a single dive that took him on the order of 45 minutes to an hour to do. Compare that to the 30 to 40 minutes my diver takes today and you can see what effect a larger market has on price. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

 

[rwthomas1]

FWIW, the diver I use starts at $2/ft but thats if its not heavy, heavy growth is $3/ft and up for hard growth, etc. Now if you get on a schedule with him, monthly, every two weeks, etc. its cheaper. An example would be just cleaning the running gear and wiping light slime off once a month is $25. RT