Boomkicker vs. Topping lift?
- Thread starter ref_123
- Start date
-
- Tags
- boomkicker lift topping
Short answer: YES. Longer answer: Oh Yeah!
We lived with the topping lift snagging the batten pockets for many years.
Then we got a boat with a rod vang. We shoulda done this long ago on our prior boat....
Most of these rod vangs let you adapt and use your existing tackle for the vang purchase, as well.
Another plus: Sailing in light air is improved with the boom being supported to give the sail some shape.
Note that when you put the boat away, you will lead the main halyard to the end of the boom and sock it up tight. This supports the whole boom and gets the halyard off the mast which you needed to do anyway.
Loren
We lived with the topping lift snagging the batten pockets for many years.
Then we got a boat with a rod vang. We shoulda done this long ago on our prior boat....
Most of these rod vangs let you adapt and use your existing tackle for the vang purchase, as well.
Another plus: Sailing in light air is improved with the boom being supported to give the sail some shape.
Note that when you put the boat away, you will lead the main halyard to the end of the boom and sock it up tight. This supports the whole boom and gets the halyard off the mast which you needed to do anyway.
Loren
Last edited:
boomkicker
I installed a BoomKicker on my 1968 E23 and like it a lot. With the BoomKicker the old soft vang is left in place, which for me is a good thing because I use the soft vang as a preventer when sailing wing on wing. Not having to deal with the topping lift is great, reefing the main is easier and like Loren said you can ease off of the vang and get some shape in the main in light conditions. I have a "pigtail" coming off of the backstay to hold the boom up while at dock so I can do pull-ups on it.
I installed a BoomKicker on my 1968 E23 and like it a lot. With the BoomKicker the old soft vang is left in place, which for me is a good thing because I use the soft vang as a preventer when sailing wing on wing. Not having to deal with the topping lift is great, reefing the main is easier and like Loren said you can ease off of the vang and get some shape in the main in light conditions. I have a "pigtail" coming off of the backstay to hold the boom up while at dock so I can do pull-ups on it.
Ridgid boom vang
Get rid of that usless topping lift that chafes the sail and is in the way. I upgraded several years ago and love my vang. First one I bought was a mechanical vang that had a sleeve to slide up when you went from boom vang to topping lift mode. This worked well for a long time, then I decieded to upgrade to a ridgid spring vang and boy do I love that. This one is aluminum with a stainless steel spring. Not to heavy and does the job nicely. I have lots of purchase like 20:1. These vangs are a huge improvement over the old fashioned topping lift. Get one! Ryan
Get rid of that usless topping lift that chafes the sail and is in the way. I upgraded several years ago and love my vang. First one I bought was a mechanical vang that had a sleeve to slide up when you went from boom vang to topping lift mode. This worked well for a long time, then I decieded to upgrade to a ridgid spring vang and boy do I love that. This one is aluminum with a stainless steel spring. Not to heavy and does the job nicely. I have lots of purchase like 20:1. These vangs are a huge improvement over the old fashioned topping lift. Get one! Ryan
Attachments
-
P9090071.JPG
tom_Heidema
Junior Member
rigid Boom Vang
I agree with the rest yes and yes
this is second boat i have installed a rigid boom vang on and it is great, i use the garhauer (i think that is the right spelling) it is easy to install and gives me great sail shape control. It terms of cost the Garhaur is the best value
I agree with the rest yes and yes
this is second boat i have installed a rigid boom vang on and it is great, i use the garhauer (i think that is the right spelling) it is easy to install and gives me great sail shape control. It terms of cost the Garhaur is the best value
Second that emotion
Love that Garhauer, top quality at a decent price. This spring I found an additional benefit it offers when my semi-mid sheeting boom broke at the bail - long story, but it was my fault for overstressing it while raising the mast the previous evening. The rigid vang supported the boom when it let go (due to strain at the clew slug on my loose footed main) in heavy winds. I'm not sure what, where, or who the boom would have done with a soft vang.
Love that Garhauer, top quality at a decent price. This spring I found an additional benefit it offers when my semi-mid sheeting boom broke at the bail - long story, but it was my fault for overstressing it while raising the mast the previous evening. The rigid vang supported the boom when it let go (due to strain at the clew slug on my loose footed main) in heavy winds. I'm not sure what, where, or who the boom would have done with a soft vang.
Joe Benedict
Member II
View from an E29
According to your profile, you have an E32. On my E29 a ridged vang would get in the way of opening the forward hatch. (The existing rope vang needs to be tied back to open the hatch when in port.) The boat does not have a topping lift but does have a cable and hook which allows the boom to be tied to the backstay. I have tried setting the mainsail using the hook and also using the Lazy Jack as a topping lift. The battens get caught in the Lazy Jack and in moderate seas releasing the hook is a problem if you are not a six-footer. As indicated in another reply (Loren Beach), I think a topping lift would get caught on the battens on an E32 and on an E29. I think the solution for an E29 is a quick release hook when setting and using the Lazy Jack as a topping lift when lowering. I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on mainsail setting options for an E29.
According to your profile, you have an E32. On my E29 a ridged vang would get in the way of opening the forward hatch. (The existing rope vang needs to be tied back to open the hatch when in port.) The boat does not have a topping lift but does have a cable and hook which allows the boom to be tied to the backstay. I have tried setting the mainsail using the hook and also using the Lazy Jack as a topping lift. The battens get caught in the Lazy Jack and in moderate seas releasing the hook is a problem if you are not a six-footer. As indicated in another reply (Loren Beach), I think a topping lift would get caught on the battens on an E32 and on an E29. I think the solution for an E29 is a quick release hook when setting and using the Lazy Jack as a topping lift when lowering. I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on mainsail setting options for an E29.
Morgan Stinemetz
Moderator
Captain Joe,
That hook thing you mentioned in your post is more than likely just a device for one to hang the end of the boom when one is at the dock. If it comes from the backstay, that's what it is. It is not designed to be connected to the boom's end when sailing.
On my own boat, E-27, I have one of those things. But I also have a topping lift--wire coated in vinyl that is not adjustable--that I have never found to be wearing on the mainsail. I use a "soft" vang, which attached to a tang at the bottom of the mast. It will then, of course, also attach to a stanchion base to act as a preventer, if that's what's needed at the time.
Hope this helps.
Morgan Stinemetz
That hook thing you mentioned in your post is more than likely just a device for one to hang the end of the boom when one is at the dock. If it comes from the backstay, that's what it is. It is not designed to be connected to the boom's end when sailing.
On my own boat, E-27, I have one of those things. But I also have a topping lift--wire coated in vinyl that is not adjustable--that I have never found to be wearing on the mainsail. I use a "soft" vang, which attached to a tang at the bottom of the mast. It will then, of course, also attach to a stanchion base to act as a preventer, if that's what's needed at the time.
Hope this helps.
Morgan Stinemetz
Joe Benedict
Member II
Morgan:
Without a topping lift the hook also functions to prevent the boom from falling on your head. (Did that the first time I set the sails.) The boat never had a topping lift so previuos owners have tried various types of hooks which are released once the mainsail is set. (Their remnants are still attached tothe cables.) I would be interested in peoples' thoughts on snap hooks etc. Pleased to hear the topping lift works for you. I will need to inspect the angles on my boat a little closer. My soft vang gets in the way of opening the mid-hatch (not companionway hatch.) Most details I have seen of an E29 show a traveler and vang located mid-boom over the companionway hatch. I can't find any evidence of this having ever been installed on the boat.
Without a topping lift the hook also functions to prevent the boom from falling on your head. (Did that the first time I set the sails.) The boat never had a topping lift so previuos owners have tried various types of hooks which are released once the mainsail is set. (Their remnants are still attached tothe cables.) I would be interested in peoples' thoughts on snap hooks etc. Pleased to hear the topping lift works for you. I will need to inspect the angles on my boat a little closer. My soft vang gets in the way of opening the mid-hatch (not companionway hatch.) Most details I have seen of an E29 show a traveler and vang located mid-boom over the companionway hatch. I can't find any evidence of this having ever been installed on the boat.
Topping lift NOT adjustable?
Hi, all,
good discussion... Two points:
1) I plan to pull the top hatch out, rotate it 180 degrees and rebed (needs rebedding any way, so I plan to use the opportunity), so that it opens on the aft. This way, I will be able to open it without hitting the vang;
2) Isn't the topping lift used to control the draft of the main sail, counteracting with the soft vang? And, if the topping lift is not adjustable, doesn't it affect your light wind performance? I am not REALLY an expert in the area, being much more cruiser than racer, so sorry if the question does not make sense...
Thanks,
Stan
Hi, all,
good discussion... Two points:
1) I plan to pull the top hatch out, rotate it 180 degrees and rebed (needs rebedding any way, so I plan to use the opportunity), so that it opens on the aft. This way, I will be able to open it without hitting the vang;
2) Isn't the topping lift used to control the draft of the main sail, counteracting with the soft vang? And, if the topping lift is not adjustable, doesn't it affect your light wind performance? I am not REALLY an expert in the area, being much more cruiser than racer, so sorry if the question does not make sense...
Thanks,
Stan
Morgan Stinemetz
Moderator
Stan,
The topping lift is there to keep the boom from falling into the cockpit & on your head when you let the main down. You can tell who the Ericson owners are who don't have a topping lift, even from a long way away. They are the guys who, along with their crews, are wearing crash helmets while sailing.
In answer to your other question, may I pose one of my own? Why would one having a topping lift installed so short that it would not let the weight of the boom give the proper shape to the mainsail? Would that not also make it impossible to flatten the main going upwind?
Morgan Stinemetz
The topping lift is there to keep the boom from falling into the cockpit & on your head when you let the main down. You can tell who the Ericson owners are who don't have a topping lift, even from a long way away. They are the guys who, along with their crews, are wearing crash helmets while sailing.
In answer to your other question, may I pose one of my own? Why would one having a topping lift installed so short that it would not let the weight of the boom give the proper shape to the mainsail? Would that not also make it impossible to flatten the main going upwind?
Morgan Stinemetz
Last edited:
Sometimes you want it Up, and sometimes....
Now Morgan, Are you baiting these guys?
An *adjustable* boom lift is helpful in very light air, to take weight off of the mainsail and let the sail assume it's designed shape.
Of course, for many of us lazy sailors, if the wind's that light, and we are already losing sail shape due to too many power boat wakes, we motor...
I used to constantly adjust the top. lift for sailing in very light air. Nowadays, with the rod vang, the spring return on the vang is more than enough to hold the boom a bit above horizontal if I slack off the vang tackle. (The tackle is normally slack for hoisting and sailing to weather anyway.) We do apply vanging force with the tackle on reaches and runs. Again, in very light air downwind, we want boom raised a bit to let the sail have shape and fill.
It's kind of like raising the spinnaker pole-end (guy) a bit higher than the tack end in light air so that the chute attains its designed aerodynamic shape.
As others have noted, there is the practical matter of not having the boom fall down while reefing, hoisting, or lowering...
Best,
Loren
Now Morgan, Are you baiting these guys?
An *adjustable* boom lift is helpful in very light air, to take weight off of the mainsail and let the sail assume it's designed shape.
Of course, for many of us lazy sailors, if the wind's that light, and we are already losing sail shape due to too many power boat wakes, we motor...
I used to constantly adjust the top. lift for sailing in very light air. Nowadays, with the rod vang, the spring return on the vang is more than enough to hold the boom a bit above horizontal if I slack off the vang tackle. (The tackle is normally slack for hoisting and sailing to weather anyway.) We do apply vanging force with the tackle on reaches and runs. Again, in very light air downwind, we want boom raised a bit to let the sail have shape and fill.
It's kind of like raising the spinnaker pole-end (guy) a bit higher than the tack end in light air so that the chute attains its designed aerodynamic shape.
As others have noted, there is the practical matter of not having the boom fall down while reefing, hoisting, or lowering...
Best,
Loren
Last edited:
Topping lift
Another penny worth of input, but yes, the "soft" TL is NOT generally a sail shape device, and was NEVER intended for that purpose. As has been noted, if the sail is not quite right, or the boom is unusually heavy, it CAN be used to slightly raise the boom, and allow the leech to twist a little, or "relax" in lighter air, which allows air to move more freely off the back of the sail (remember the whole idea is to move the highest volume of air accross the sailplan-from luff to leech. The "job" of a sail is not done unless and until the air has "left the building" (the leech).
This would only be done in very light air, and the danger for many is in not having it long enough (or not easing it enough) so that instead of trimming against the actual sail, you end up pulling against the topping lift-which does no good.
The best solution is always the solid vang or kicker because you can adjust the leech tension freely and without limit, and you avoid the windage and nuisance of the TL. They were never intended to be used to shape sails though, that is an unplanned option to deal with less than ideal sails or excessively heavy booms.
Good times,
Seth
Another penny worth of input, but yes, the "soft" TL is NOT generally a sail shape device, and was NEVER intended for that purpose. As has been noted, if the sail is not quite right, or the boom is unusually heavy, it CAN be used to slightly raise the boom, and allow the leech to twist a little, or "relax" in lighter air, which allows air to move more freely off the back of the sail (remember the whole idea is to move the highest volume of air accross the sailplan-from luff to leech. The "job" of a sail is not done unless and until the air has "left the building" (the leech).
This would only be done in very light air, and the danger for many is in not having it long enough (or not easing it enough) so that instead of trimming against the actual sail, you end up pulling against the topping lift-which does no good.
The best solution is always the solid vang or kicker because you can adjust the leech tension freely and without limit, and you avoid the windage and nuisance of the TL. They were never intended to be used to shape sails though, that is an unplanned option to deal with less than ideal sails or excessively heavy booms.
Good times,
Seth